Posted on 04/26/2021 8:49:56 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Karen Garner, 73, only weighs 80 pounds but she was manhandled and body-slammed by police officers, causing her to fracture her elbow and dislocate her arm.
Officers Austin Hopp and Daria Jalali arrested Garner on June 26, 2020 after she walked out of a Walmart with a candy bar, a can of Pepsi and a t-shirt without paying.
Walmart recovered the items and did not lose any money.
Police officer Hopp is seen approaching a visibly confused Garner as she was walking home from Walmart by herself.
Moments later, the officer slams Garner to the ground and cuffs her as she screams, “I’m going home!”
VIDEO (disturbing content):
Attorney Sarah Schielke on Monday filed a federal civil rights lawsuit on behalf of the Garner family nearly one year after the violent arrest.
Colorado prosecutors opened a criminal investigation into the two officers and their supervisor after video of the arrest went viral on social media and sparked outrage.
New video released by the attorney for Karen Garner’s family shows officers laughing and fist-bumping over video of Garner sitting in her cell crying in pain from her injuries.
‘Ready for the pop?’ Hopp said referring to Garner’s arm dislocating.
When an unnamed officer asked, “What popped?” Hopp replied: “I think it was her shoulder.”
“I can’t believe I threw a 73-year-old on the ground,” Hopp said.
VIDEO:
“Does that excuse no medical care and falsifying the report?”
It depends on what medical care you’re referring to. If you’re talking about the physical injury that wasn’t determined till down the road, you have a point. But that would have been the responsibility of the station, not the field officer.
Another problem with the situation is that the lawyer is filing suit based upon the dementia which was not determined by either the field officer or the Walmart employees.
II. JURISDICTION AND VENUE
This action arises under the Constitution and laws of the United and is brought pursuant to 42 U.S.C. § 1983; the Americans with Disabilities Act, 42 U.S.C. § 12131; and the Rehabilitation Act, 29 U.S.C. § 794
Both these laws are based upon an existing illness recognized by the plaintiff. Like I mentioned in my previous points, there is no way the officer could have known of a case of dementia.
If he physically roughed her up for no reason, then he would be wrong. But that has to be proved in court and it has nothing to do with her dementia. And that is the weapon the media and the attorney are using for sensationalism.
Same thing happened to Chauvin. He had his knee in Floyd’s upper back for 9 minutes according to the case. The autopsy by the state indicated no trauma to the back, the back of Floyd’s neck, or the esophagus thus no air restriction. But it was a sensationalism and caused a travesty. Almost the same situation.
wy69
Quoting Officer Austin Hopp =>
“Did you hear the pop?” Hopp asks Jalali, then describing the scene. “I was pushing, pushing, pushing. I hear ‘pop.’ I was like, ‘Oh no. That’s going to turn into something.’
He knew he screwed up. Look for him to go to prison for this.
IMO, Officer Austin Hopp knew he screwed the pooch as soon as he heard the ‘pop’ - see my post #122. I also think the song and dance he put on at the station was to drag his partner and others into it so he wouldn’t have to face the music alone. I’d bet the rent he goes to prison.
That story title might sound like hyperbole and a plea for sympathy (which it is) to some but it's very likely true.
About 5-6 years into her Alzheimer's I took my mother for a walk in the garden to get her out of the house, experience something other than the TV and the couch. As we walked around the end of a bed she lost her balance and her grip on my hand falling to the ground. Thankfully she was not hurt.
It scared me good but the affect on her was profound. For the next two weeks she was entirely unable to stand up from the toilet or the couch. It was all in her head but it was impossible to get her to even try. I am glad it wasn't permanent but I thought it might be and am certain it could have been.
I guess I should add that she was perfectly capable of standing from her bed, couch or toilet prior to that. There was nothing physical about her temporary inability.
You might be on to something about Officer Hopp looking to get someone to share his misery.
If it’s from Walmart it not worth $13, that was just the price marked on it.🤔
Caww, what do you think of the murders of Daniel Shaver or Justine Damond? Lon Horiuchi, who murdered Vicki Weaver for no reason, while she was holding her baby?
May your chains rest lightly upon you, wave-slave.
You have issues. That little lady hadn’t “stolen” anything - the store got its trinkets back. That fool officer was in the “you disobey me and I’m going to hurt you” mode and handled her violently and laughed about injuring her.
This kind of nastiness is dishonorable and completely inconsistent with our Constitution and the ethos of “to protect and serve”.
That cop and the ones who covered for him are the actual criminals in this episode. Kudos to the civilian who saw some of what was happening and reported it - but the sergeant who showed up, just covered for the thugs and he needs to find a different line work.
The police have a tough job but it’s made tougher by thugs in uniform.
“That little lady hadn’t “stolen” anything...”
The minute she left property with unpaid merchandise items, it is theft. And because the store called the cops and alerted them to the problem, it doesn’t change the law.
And in Colorado, a defendant can commit the crime of shoplifting without actually leaving the store. All he/she needs to is to move the property and exercise control over it in a way that is inconsistent with the shop owner’s reasonable expectations as to how shoppers will handle merchandise. Colorado law defines shoplifting as intentionally depriving a retail establishment of its property.
CRS 18-4-406:
We do not know the value of what was taken but stealing less than $50 worth of goods is a petty offense:
Up to 6 months in jail time, and/or
Up to $500 in fines
So returning the items doesn’t change a thing as there is no prevision for it and they called 911. Now the treatment of the woman has nothing to do with the crime she committed. I never said it was right or wrong. That is for the courts to decide. But the law was broken, she did it, and there are provisions in Colorado law for it as I just showed you.
Do I have issues? Nope, I read the law. And if you can find a provision in the law that says a person with an unrecognized mental illness can break it, then I’ll admit my error. But if you do, it is completely inconsistent with the current law.
wy60
At some point, you need to realize that Inspector Joubert is not an example to live by - and cops will be under even more pressure to act like good human beings - or suffer the loss of their jobs and cause even more damage to the reputation to the institution.
Not everyone who breaks a law is a dangerous criminal.
I generally agree with your position, but after watching the body cams and the police station cameras capturing the statements and behavior of the LEOs, they appear to be the criminals in this situation.
1) Woman may or ma not have had dementia, but her constant response to accusation of theft, by replying she was going home, indicated to me that she had been warned before to return home if she was away unattended. Probably told that by family members keeping her safe from harm and any harm to others. IMHO, her sense of wrong was by not being at home where she was supposed to be. I don’t think she even considered the other elements.
2) Female LEO was quite embarrassed of the situation and appeared very repentant.
3) Male officer didn’t appear to have a maturity level beyond a third grader. He thought it was funny to dislocate or break her arm, simply because her not immediately obeying him gave him authority to cause her bodily harm. It wasn’t a case of him simply seeking to place her under his control. He boasted of harming her and continued by shackling her uncomfortably with a dislocated or broken shoulder in a solitary holding cell for many hours.
4) 3rd LEO inquired about a “Blue Team” so as to relieve them of consequence. 2 of the officers also considered elevating her charge to a felony to avoid consequences, after the facts of their response to her encounter.
IMHO, the LEOs are more likely to seek to commit felonies than the public they supposed to enforce the law within.
It’s surprising the videos were released.
“Not everyone who breaks a law is a dangerous criminal.”
The original crime was theft. It graduated into escape. From there, she tried to kick the officer in her effort to escape after arrest. And whether she looked like a dangerous criminal or not, I’m not sure there is a look like that. I can remember in Southeast Asia when children were killing troops with bombs. I witnessed one.
For a lot of years I have said that if you don’t like a law, get with others like you and change it. But until that’s done, it is the law and breaking it for a self supposed reason makes the person doing that a criminal, not a patriot. Patriots don’t steal or try to kick people.
You made an interesting point with the statement:
“...and cops will be under even more pressure to act like good human beings - or suffer the loss of their jobs and cause even more damage to the reputation to the institution.”
You are correct. But this whole situation is being fueled by the media to do just that by using her condition, one which could not be pre-determined, as an opportunity to go after the police who do their job the right way. So having an unrealistic expectation of all cops being good ort bad being fueled by the agenda of socialist to destroy the credibility of all cops is worse than having one that should be punished. My problem is not what was done, I never said that.
My problem was how and why. And that’s a far greater problem we are having to face right now. Law enforcement is having a horrible time replacing leaving cops that feel they are no longer supported by their employers so they feel threatened, life and limb. Response times are lost and force to force for violent crimes are going non-existent both for safety of compliance and misrepresentation. The Chauvin case was a perfect example. And as you can see, in the media, it’s just beginning. And they blatantly don’t care how they represent it and who it harms. They outlawed carpet bombs. The media is doing the same thing with lies in this case.
wy69
“...they appear to be the criminals in this situation.”
The criminals? Maybe other criminals. But I didn’t write or vote in the law that covers it.
“Woman may or ma not have had dementia, but her constant response to accusation of theft, by replying she was going home, indicated to me that she had been warned before to return home if she was away unattended.”
Appreciate your thought here, but how do you prove it. If it’s legit, then how could she find her way home, why did she want to go home only when she was informed of being arrested, why did she return (?) stolen property she didn’t think she stole (unless she did), and why did she resist arrest from a LOE in uniform by trying to leave. Please don’t let the undisclosed dementia try to gain opinion of what she did.
Your section 3 is very true in my mind also. But that has to be proven in court, not by public opinion and not misrepresented by a media using other surrounding facts or fictions.
You mention is Sec #4 about the blue team so as to relieve them of consequence. The Blue Team is the Loveland Police Department’s system of keeping track of certain reports, including uses of force and threats of force during arrests. If you’re implying it is there to protect officers from discovery, then it is not the cops but the entire system that is broken.
“IMHO, the LEOs are more likely to seek to commit felonies than the public they supposed to enforce the law within.”
There are more than 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers now serving in the United States, which is the highest figure ever. According to a report from USA Today Less than 10% of officers in most police forces get investigated for misconduct. If I told you there was all saints I’d be talking manure. But if every officer that was investigated was found guilty of a crime, that still leaves 720K LOE’s that are not dirty. But you won’t hear about them as that doesn’t fit the agenda of the socialist efforts to defund and destroy the capacity of the cops. Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I’ve been in combat a few times and I didn’t enjoy it. I don’t want to have to harden my home to protect my wife and I because of an over applied misconception used to accomplish combat in the streets. I like natural causes. Not being murdered.
wy69
I like and have sometimes helped police officers when they needed help, but all of my experiences haven't been wonderful: immediately after I got out of the hospital after Vietnam (for a serious gunshot wound) I had an L.A. cop violently pull me over, running my car up on the curb and then pulled a 12 gauge shotgun on me, because "I didn't stop when he put his lights on". When I pointed out that his lights weren't on, he was still in a high state of fury and kept that gun on me while I lay on the ground, crutches, leg brace and all. He finally gave me a ticket for an "unsafe lane change" and left, leaving me shaking.
I have had other times right after the war where cops were nasty and dangerous and in one case, I was lucky to get away while the different police departments debated with each other over "who would get to keep me" - this was in Marianna Florida and I was sure that they intended to kill me that night.
I went on to serve another 24 years in the Marine Corps, retiring as a Lieutenant Colonel and have never been an actual lawbreaker - though I have no doubt that I'm on somebody's list for being a Trump backer. I like cops and I appreciate what they do and what they face - but they have to adopt safer and less thuggish tactics.
You and I both served in Vietnam and we learned trigger control. I never shot a civilian and while I was definitely a killer, I always held fire when the guy surrendered and I always treated my prisoners carefully and respectfully. Paid off when one of my prisoners helped me to the helicopter the day I got shot.
Cops need to understand that we are American citizens and keep faith with us, while protecting themselves. The overwhelming force doctrine, when not balanced with judgement is getting them in trouble. And no, the old lady didn't "escape custody" at the Walmart - they turned her loose after they got the stuff back and refused her attempts to pay for it. There was never any "flight from law enforcement" and the cop was in no danger at all from her at any time.
“Cops need to understand that we are American citizens and keep faith with us, while protecting themselves. The overwhelming force doctrine, when not balanced with judgement is getting them in trouble.”
Agreed. But if only 10% of the work for cops that is questionable is being investigated for malfeasance, then that leaves 90% of the cops doing their job in an acceptable manner by a majority of the public. So that 10% and even less of those that are found illegal within those investigations are not the prevailing, then I feel their is way too much being transferred to too many that are not guilty of anything but doing their job as expected.
In the US, in 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings according to the FBI records.
In the us, IN 2020, There were 306 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.
https://nleomf.org/facts-figures/law-enforcement-facts
By looking at it by numbers, that means that 306 officers of 800,000 were killed in duty and 1021 of 328.2 million people were killed by cops. Who has more losses per capita?
Again, I’m not saying the cops was right or wrong. I wasn’t there, the tapes could have been changed, it’s been done before by the cops and the media, and the stories may not be complete with the media as they have a history of that, also.
But to automatically determine the cop is wrong for a number of wrong reasons is not a reasonable representation of our justice system. It destroys the reputation, need, and trust for police throughout the country. We need to do better with the law, not determine it’s viability based upon every slightly different scenareo.
In the Floyd case, you had a perpetrator high on illegal drugs, cops couldn’t know. but he passed a hot twenty trying to buy cigarettes and the store owners called the cops. In the other case, the woman stole from a store, was caught and brought back and could have been trying to get out of it by paying for the property, and she walked out of the store leaving the scene again possibly a dementia patient but the cops couldn’t know that, and the cops were called.
Both people committed crimes by the books. Let’s don’t sensationalize it by the media for their agenda. Let the system work. Even if it works wrong. That’s where you stop that with your vote.
wy69
They are fast to wrestle someone down or shoot them if they feel like it - but not at all willing to fight and die for us "civilians".
This isn't how you and I were trained when we committed to serving our country. 306 officers died in 2020 and that is a tragedy and a loss to all of us. But 400 of us in the First Marine Division died in one week in August of 1966, so I have a perspective.
Until and unless our police realize that violent preemptive tactics are the root of their problem right now - and get back to being members/protectors of our communities, not just them and "civilians" (or just all criminals), this is going to get worse long before it gets batter.
“I think that you’re missing the central truth in this discussion.”
Then I’ll guess I’ll step out of it. After my retirement from active, I spent a lot of years doing research and making decisions based upon both facts and speculation using historical facts as a guide. It’s all we really have to work with and between the DOA and the DOD, there was a lot of information to delve into. But there was always a few constants that led the direction of the search...one major one being how the public is manipulated.
Hitler was okay for a few years and letting him have a few countries was, well, acceptable. And that was the case when the American Indian was murdered off their land and their sources to survive, which they had been successful at using and protecting for hundreds of years, were taken. But these are on a grand scale.
As long as the information we are getting is factual, and is on a grand enough scale to mean enough people won’t care unless they are inundated with it, it is going to be okay.
I’m not sure how many arrests are made every day in the US. I don’t think anyone does. I don’t think there are any less bad cops in the US than 50 years ago since the mount of them has increased. And I’m not sure, except for information, if there is less bad people in the US than there were except there are more of them, also.
But I don’t just see the pattern changing. I see it being changed in the eyes of the people with isolated incidents...some good and some purposely misinterpreted to sway opinion. All these bad cops that are being identified in the media are a tiny amount of the arrests. But they are being so overwhelmingly swaying, and in some cases out and out lied about, they are overshadowing the truth and that of this thread. I don’t seer a person in Naples Florida ever knowing about this incident...or caring...without the presentation of a media concerning something that happened thousands of miles away. They probably don’t have any idea how may were robbed in Miami that day. And do they care or is it okay?
You and I spent some time in the worst of situations in combat like down 609. And I’m sure you ran across those that were a risk. Same with the cops. But all risks are based on facts in our legal world.
I’m sure there were a lot of people disposed of over the years, on both sides of the law. So how come a man was shot in Missouri after robbing a store and beating the owner, attacking a cop in the squad car trying to get his gun and causing two discharges, and after starting to flee, came back at the cop and the cop shot him six times before taking the trunk shot is such a deal? With the thinking of the writer of this thread material, cop violence is common place. Or maybe the kid that was walking on private property unknown who he was and was being watched by a neighborhood watch person who the kid turned on, and busted his head open on the sidewalk before the watch guy shot him. Or maybe the overdosed man who tried to pass a counterfeit $20, went violent and died of heart failure in the struggle possibly based upon the drugs, and in my mind definitely, and the cop is going to jail not determining reasonable doubt?
The end justifies the means. That’s the point. And the means is not justice, it’s revenge for the wrong reasons. And it sells newspapers and causes riots, acceptable violence.
I see the isolation of the incidents and I see the misapplied reasoning behind the con which is on a much grander scale. With the amount of violent crimes in the US each day, and scattered all over the country, why do just a tiny amount of them go national? For effect.
“...this is going to get worse long before it gets batter.”
To be honest with you, it is a whole lot better than our history. But it has become acceptable for crime to be okay if it doesn’t effect people enough. And until it hurts people enough to step up to our self professed position as the top of the food chain, which I doubt, we will continue to push from both direction to not meet half way, winner take all.
People are a product of our information and it’s presentation. You hear of Chicago. Did you know that per capita of people, they aren’t even in the top 100 violent crime cities in the US?
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous
It all depends on your interpretation. And who has what to gain.
wy69
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