Posted on 09/07/2020 12:09:29 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
We Protestants certainly have a problem when it comes to Mary–so allergic are we to any sign of Marian devotion that we flip out and run the other way at any sign of it, including thoroughly orthodox phrases like “Mother of God” and “Hail Mary, full of grace.”
The first phrase is of course part of the touchstone of orthodoxy the Definition of Chalcedon, and is the proper translation of Theotokos–the preferred Protestant version (for those who even bother to recite it) is “God-bearer,” ... To call Mary the “Mother of God” was a truth that many Christians actually gave their blood and their lives to defend, and yet we Protestants have casually tossed it aside because it sounds icky and Catholic.
Likewise, the first part of the Ave Maria is of course straight from the Gospel of Luke: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you…. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
For almost as long as the Church has existed, it has held Mary in a place of special honour, and seen fit to show that honour liturgically. No doubt Marian devotion has taken many harmful forms, but should we not defer to the consensus of many centuries of Christians that some kind of Marian devotion is appropriate and desirable? Therefore we should seek to engage, together with Catholics, Orthodox, Anglo-Catholics, and long centuries of Christian practice, in whatever forms of Marian devotion that are not necessarily heretical, idolatrous, or what have you, and try to assume the best of forms that seem dubious or ambiguous.
(Excerpt) Read more at bradlittlejohn.com ...
I'll tell you why ... because Roman Catholics are grotesquely negligent in pointing out that there is nothing divine about Mary. Mary was/is a human being, she is currently a disembodied spirit awaiting her resurrection body like the rest of the OT and NT believers. Jesus did not receive his divine nature from Mary ... and the term Mother of God implies that He did ... and the importance and position that they ascribe to her thoroughly clouds the topic.
Which shows the man was not perfect. Your point was ...? He also did not reject infant baptism, but I don’t think he believed that infant baptism rendered salvation to the little wet one.
...Which shows the man was not perfect.
Who Is?
What Protestants object to is extra-scriptural Catholic dogmas like Immaculate Conception which says Mary was herself "immaculately conceived" and was completely without original sin. This dogma is actually a fairly recent development in Church history and Catholic Mariology has evolved quite a lot over time.
Through Grace. Mothers do not impart sin to their children. Sinfulness is imparted to all of Adam's offspring. "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned." Romans 5:12
to kindly ask her permission to become His mother,
OH! I didn’t the angel asked permission, just fortold.
totally subject to her for 30 years
How about 12 years old, Where were you, we were worried?
Smartest post of the day.
+1
She sure did.
Just like my broken clock, I am correct twice a day. (I just burned my second time on this post.)
PROOF THAT MARY WAS A SINNER, NEEDED A SAVIOR, HAD MORE THAN FOUR CHILDREN, AND IS NOT MEDIATRIX.
By Neil Rivalland
Proof of her being a sinner
Firstly, all men have sinned, including Mary, and fallen short of the glory of God [Rom 3:23], and through one man sin entered the world and death spread to all men [Rom 5:12]. King David writing in Psalms says that he was brought forth in iniquity and in sin when his mother conceived him - biblical proof of mankinds sinful nature from the time of conception. [Psa 51:5]. According to the law of Moses every mother that conceived, either a male or female, had to after an appointed time offer sacrifices to God: one as a burnt offering, and one as a sin offering [Lev.12]. Mary, after conceiving Jesus made these sacrifices in accordance and obedience to the Law God gave to Moses. This is clearly indicated to us in the book of Luke chap. 2 ver. 21-24, as Mary applies this very observance as is required of every Jewish woman who conceives her first born son. Read Leviticus 12 is first, understand what is being said, then read Luke 2:21-24. Once reading and understanding what is being said, it is clear that the offering Mary offers makes according to ... law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. [Lk.2:24], ... the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: ... [Lev. 12:8]. The sin offering Mary gives is sufficient evidence Mary’s carnality.
In need of a Saviour
Other proof of Mary being a sinner is found when Mary declares the need of a saviour. One is only in need of a saviour when realizing they are helpless and hopeless; that God in Christ having paid the penalty for the sins of mankind, is the One in Whom we are able to find redemption. [Col.1:12-14]. Mary also said, “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour” [Luke 1:46,47]. Again, Mary admits her estate as the handmaiden of God and not “Mother of God”. Admiting her estate as a handmaiden because God used her instrumentally as a vessel to conceive the Lord Jesus Christ. By Mary s own words, she removes any idea of pre-emanance so as not to assume exaltation above God s calling upon her life. “For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed” [Luke 1:48].
Had more than four children
The Scriptures catergorically state the family Jesus had, and that Mary did conceive after the birth of Jesus. She never remained a virgin, and can never be considered “immaculate” as the Roman Catholic Church has exalteded her to be. “Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?” (Mat 13:55,56).
Not Mediatrix
Mary as mediatrix is unfounded in Scripture. Scripture tells us who makes intercession for the saints before the Father.
There are two mediators in Scripture, who are:
Firstly, the Lord Jesus Christ.
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to
continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. [Heb 7:22-25].
Secondly, the Holy Spirit.
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. [Rom 8:26,27].
If the Catholics would like to focus a bit more on Mary than most, then why not? And if some other group would like to focus a bit more on John the Baptist than most, again why not?
It’s not like either group is putting someone ahead of Christ.
I sure wish Christians would quit picking at each other, and instead think of ways to unite us.
_________________________________________________________
Facts are facts and Mary is the mother of The Christ, period. The problem is that some people ascribe deity to Mary. Despite being the vessel God used to bring
Christ into the world, while she was “flavored” among women she was just a woman like any other woman who has to look to Christ to be saved just the same as any other person on earth.
In my opinion it is Joseph who is short changed in all this. He is the one who took a pregnant woman to wife, pregnant with a child that was not his. In todays Islam Mary would be stoned. It was Joseph who safely took the family to Egypt and hid The Child Jesus until it was safe to go back. It was Joseph who taught the Child Jesus about His heritage, the scriptures, how to earn a living and much much more. He gets little or no honor.
I am always mystified by the passages where Jesus is confronted by his family during His ministry. Until His resurrection, did they not realize He truly was Messiah? The Scripture passages indicate they did not realize that, including His blessed Mother. BUT AFTER THE RESURRECTION ...!
The title "Theotokos" (literally "God-bearer," but rendered into English, via Latin, as "mother of God") was part of the early church's grappling with the question of what precisely it meant to say thst Jesus is truly human and truly divine, yet only one divine Person.
To not do violence to Jesus' humanity, you have to admit that that Person is Mary's son and that she is his mother. To not do violence to Jesus' divinity, you have to admit that Mary's son is the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity ... God.
Maybe you should give enough credit to those fifth-Century bishops to understand that they had no intention of implying that Jesus got his divine nature from a mortal woman, something that even the dumbest, last-in-his-class undergraduate theology student understands is impossible, for the simple reason that nobody can give what he doesn't have.
You already answered your own question. Blessed be her holy name.
Wasn’t James a brother of Jesus?
Must be an early version of Family Court (having lived through it myself)!
I didn't ask a question.
If Mary was a sinner, the Atonement is a fraud.
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