Wuhan Coronavirus: Propylene Glycol as Possible Therapy for Eradication of RTI and Prevention of Complications [vanity]

self | 04/02/2020 | self

[logi_cal869]

Wuhan Coronavirus: Propylene Glycol as Possible Therapy for Eradication of RTI and Prevention of Complications

It was quite some time ago when I came across a paper about study of the use of propylene glycol which I interpolated could be used for respiratory tract infections (RTI), including influenza. Reading about the severe cases for people who are immune compromised and/or with underlying health conditions dying from complications of Wuhan Coronavirus (the majority of deaths) prompted me to revisit the paper (for good reason).

I was dismissive of the research at the time due to its use to defend the vaping industry. But here’s the deal: I am able to source not a single paper where vaping therapy has ever been used in a clinical environment to treat patients with viral or secondary bacterial infections of the lungs. These patients frequently succumb to their illnesses due to failure of common pharmacological treatments. I submit that Propylene Glycol Therapy for RTI could save lives with the current epidemic of Wuhan Coronavirus (without regard to all the controversy, about which I am still writing, delayed by my own illness).

My hypothesis is not without scientific basis. Not unlike Dr. Orian Truss, Dr. William Crook and Dr. Sidney Valentine Haas, it seems as though the solution to a modern health problem lies not in future research or pharmacological intervention, but in the past and, ironically, research which has only been used by the vaping industry to defend their products.

This is the paper I discovered a number of years ago while researching my book and again when later researching how dangerous it was for my wife to switch to vaping from smoking cigarettes, THE BACTERICIDAL ACTION OF PROPYLENE GLYCOL VAPOR ON MICROORGANISMS SUSPENDED IN AIR. The paper was written by O. H. ROBERTSON, M.D., EDWARD BIGG, M.D., THEODORE T. PUCK, PH.D., AND BENJAMIN F. MILLER, M.D., published February 27, 1942, referencing work performed by Douglas, Hill & Smith in 1928.

The Summary spells it out succinctly:

“It has been found that propylene glycol vapor dispersed into the air of an enclosed space produces a marked and rapid bactericidal effect on microorganisms introduced into such an atmosphere in droplet form. Concentrations of 1 gm. of propylene glycol vapor in two to four million cc. of air produced immediate and complete sterilization of air into which pneumococci, streptococci, staphylococci, H. influemae, and other microorganisms as well as influenza virus had been sprayed.””

They go on to cite,

“Tests on possible deleterious effects of breathing propylene glycol containing atmospheres over long periods of time are being carried out.”

I could find no reference to inhalation studies on human subjects that didn’t pertain directly to defending the business of vaping products. However, the cited study included exposing mice to influenza-laced air; the mice exposed to propylene glycol-treated air survived and the control group succumbed to the virus. Most vaping juice is comprised of 80/20 Glycerin / Propylene glycol; I submit that exposure to the vapor of such a combination may have a sterilizing effect upon pathogenic infection of the lungs and that a similar treatment in a clinical environment may save lives in the absence of pharmacological intervention.

Again, that was 78 years ago, so it should be no surprise that research continued over the ensuing decades (of sorts). This summary of publications spanning 1942-1965 originated from the U.S. Navy. Their citation for the research is the following:

“Research is concerned with fundamental investigations in the general areas of aerobiology and experimental pathology of infectious diseases as they apply to public health and to medical problems of the Navy.”

Clearly this application has scientific credibility. I won’t go down the conspiracy-theory bunny-hole by analyzing why this research was never given any serious medical credence, but when I awoke with a fever, cough, congestion, stuffy nose, headache and body aches suddenly on March 14th, my mind later went to that 1942 paper.

The first day was atypical: I took my temperature later in the morning and was surprised that I had a reading of 99.5 (I haven’t had a fever illness in 30 years; I simply do not get sick like this, ever). Out of an abundance of concern for my coworkers - I was worried that I was contagious for much of the week - I made an appointment with Urgent Care. By the time I was seen, the cruel irony was that my temperature was normal. The doctor passed off my symptoms as allergies or some other virus. I was incredibly-embarrassed. The doctor tested me for influenza A & B: Both were negative. He was adamant that if I was ill, it was likely just another flu bug (but my temperature was normal, so he was alluding to allergies. I knew better).

Within a couple of hours the chills began: The fever was again present (99.0). Throughout the first day of my illness the body aches increased, as did the headache behind my eyes, bowel function was abnormal and I just couldn’t seem to drink enough water to prompt urinary evacuation of toxins. Fever rose to 99.5, but I now know that my contact thermometer was inaccurate on my forehead. Based upon my chills, I believe that my fever was, in reality, about 101. The next day my temperature wavered between 101 and 101.5, measured at my armpits. Day 2 was the worst, with growing discomfort in my chest and severe body aches which eclipsed the worst post-workout day I’d ever had (including military Basic Training >30 years prior). In short, I was miserable and the ibuprofen I’d taken was wholly-ineffective at providing any relief. It was on Day 2 that I switched to my wife’s Acetaminophen (she can’t take Ibuprofen).

That was also the day I asked my wife to dig up her old vape pen as I felt the discomfort grow in my chest. She had some leftover vaping juice which turned out to contain propylene glycol (unfortunately with nicotine, but going to a Vape Shop was not an option) and I vaped a few times during the day. I felt better and the chest discomfort was significantly-reduced, but my fever continued the morning of & into Day 3, peaking at 102.8 measured at my arm pits just as I began my vaping regimen in the early afternoon. I increased vaping to hourly and then to every half hour, watching my fever drop every 30 minutes after realizing that I’d killed the vape pen’s battery. My fever finally broke about 8 a.m. on Day 4 (a couple of hours post-awakening, measured below 98 at my armpits, less than 24 hours after my 8-hour-long regimen before I retired to sleep). During those last hours of vaping I recorded my temperature measurement results, applied in a table & inserted below:

The table above depicts Day 3. Temperatures on Day 2 had spiked to nearly 103 and I had vaped a couple of times, but without any real effort (or want: The juice I had at the time tasted horrible). I mis-typed prior regarding Day 4: I awoke with a normal temperature, which is about 98 for me. In short, within 24 hours of vaping regularly as a "treatment regimen" my fever was completely broken.

I’ve since found a comprehensive list of symptoms of “COVID-19” (no thanks to U.S. CDC, which has a pathetic webpage on the disease still listing only 3 symptoms: Fever, Cough & Shortness of breath):

I experienced all of the symptoms except nausea & shortness of breath (I never get nauseous, save for food poisoning). Despite the discomfort in my chest, I never experienced any shortness of breath). Overall the illness was “just a flu” (about 24 hours were the worst, measured by misery factor) but the growing discomfort in my chest was ominous and unprecedented from prior flu. My wife developed all 12 of the symptoms, ironically getting ill within about 40 hours of the first appearance of my first symptoms. She experienced both nausea & diarrhea during her illness; in my own case, diarrhea and sputum production only manifested once the fever had broken. In her case as well, Day 2 was the worst, but she is a heavy vaper, an ex-smoker who used vaping to successfully-kick tobacco. She won’t admit it, but I believe that her vaping sped her recovery as well and prevented lung damage from what is becoming more difficult to argue was anything but COVID-19. Her fever also spiked at about 40 hours from onset of symptoms and rapidly dropped back to normal, coincidentally matching my own curve. Had I begun vaping Day 1, I believe that I may also have had a 48-hour illness (mine was a 72-hour illness from onset of symptoms morning of 3/14; hers was roughly 48-hours to normal temperature, with an unexplained, protracted nausea extending another 72 hours).

Author’s note: We are both in our early 50s. I have had no (known) exposure to any infected individuals and, at the time*, there were no confirmed cases in my County. I have not traveled and have neither any risk factors nor underlying health conditions. The only reason I suspected Wuhan Coronavirus is due to my hypothesis that - because of its nature, all things considered - there was no avoiding it. Rather than await complications which may or may not have manifested (i.e. lung damage) - especially in light of the negative tests for influenza A & B - I acted.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I took generic Ibuprofen on day 1 & 2 of my illness (which did NOTHING), later switching to Tylenol, finally-permitting some decent sleep the 2nd night (welcome relief). I’ve later learned that nurses & doctors on the front-lines have observed that patients with severe complications and no underlying health conditions consumed Ibuprofen. Their conclusion is that Ibuprofen makes the virus’ effects 5-10x worse on the body!

DO NOT CONSUME IBUPROFEN/ADVIL/ETC if you develop listed symptoms!

I procured a number of cold/flu over-the-counter (OTC) medications on Day 4 for my now-miserable wife: She found that Tylenol Severe Cold & Flu - a disgusting-tasting red liquid, according to her - afforded her the best relief from the misery. Regrettably, I did not have any cold or flu medications in the house (a glaring mistake since-rectified).

In spite of my brief misery, I credit the vaping for my now-acknowledged rather-mild illness, as it was patently-clear that whatever virus I was infected with was growing in my lungs: It was around 5 p.m. on Day 2 that I experienced a very sharp pain upon inhaling in my right side, just beneath my rib-cage; it was after I began vaping every 30 minutes out of concern that it was getting out of control that I experienced relief, both in discomfort and in fever reduction (a very notable correlation).

Morning of Day 4: No fever, slight hoarse cough with little-to-no phlegm, and appetite has returned. I feel great. However, 12 hours later and the expected coughing began to expel a thick, dirty brown phlegm from the infection. It was very strange that prior coughing was dry/hoarse with almost nothing to show for it (in contrast to all other RTIs in the past).

I will not know for weeks or longer whether or not I contracted Wuhan Coronavirus (testing in Oregon is rather haphazard, thanks to conditions at the state lab, not due to anything pertaining to CDC or the Trump administration!), but the illness was unlike any I’d had before. Granted, it’s been >30 years since I have been sick with such a bug. In comparison to a case of Norovirus I picked up last September (3 days of brutal diarrhea), this was a relative cake-walk.

I concede that I was lucky. I also concede that my experience with vaping as a method of interdiction to mitigate pulmonary complications is completely anecdotal (at this time).

However, I believe that health practitioners should have an open mind about treating those most at-risk of complications from Wuhan Coronavirus with Propylene Glycol Mist Therapy to eradicate the virus from the lungs before it does irreparable damage and, consequently for some, cause death. This gives the infected a fighting chance for their immune systems to do their jobs without the virus overtaking their ability to breathe. Those who are self-caring at home can - in my learned opinion, part & parcel of an unproven, working hypothesis at this time (sans my own experience) - practice Vaping Therapy to both shorten their illness and significantly-reduce the risk of complications which results in hospitalization, but take note: The tools must already be in your home (a trip to the store at that point was neither prudent nor responsible).

The tool of my recovery. Ignore the generic warning label: The 80/20 glycerin/propylene glycol juice is 0mg, i.e. "nicotine-free". Served its purpose 100% for a speedy recovery.

This cannot and IS NOT being promoted as a “cure”: It is a treatment to prevent complications.

In a hospital ward for some patients it could prove to be their last, best hope. Eventually, I theorize that PG Mist Therapy could be the preferred intervention for all Wuhan Coronavirus patients admitted with complications. Most-pertinently, following recovery the patient has acquired immunity to this novel virus. In my case - assuming that my illness was COVID-19 caused by Wuhan Coronavirus (unconfirmed) - I believe that the illness term was shortened significantly and discomfort reduced to merely coping with a fever.

A "mist tent" could be utilized for clinical Propylene Glycol therapy.

Rather than post something in a panicked environment where there is little real urgency in the U.S., I have sought out 2 Italian doctors to forward my thoughts on this hypothesis both based upon prior research and my own personal experience. I reached out to a foreign doctor primarily due to regulatory hurdles in the U.S., lack of emergency in this country (as yet) and atypical resistance to any treatment not approved by the American Medical Association.

My efforts were for naught. I have now (a/o 3/26) reached out to 2 New York doctors following the latest edit of this post; we shall see what a new month will bring (I am skeptical. Update: All for naught, it seems, as of 3/28). I have also reached out to the Administrator at the Veteran’s home in Lebanon, Oregon’s local hot-spot for the virus; we shall see, but I am beyond skeptical: I am becoming jaded.

Regardless, I maintain hope that my hypothesis proves beneficial to all with this new threat to the aged and those with severely-impaired health.

However, I suspect the vaccine manufacturers may not take too kindly to my approach.

In short, I believe that I was somehow exposed to whomever brought it to Lane County, developed the atypical illness the morning of March 14th and - before symptoms had progressed to prompt respiratory distress - e.g. shortness of breath - fully-reversed my fever within 24 hours of propylene glycol intervention.

That should be a quotable statement worth its weight in gold, assuming that my illness was COVID-19 caused by Wuhan Coronavirus (no testing is being performed in Oregon on non-critical needs, as-yet).

I remain steadfast in my belief (hypothesis) that Propylene Glycol Mist Therapy - however it is applied, be it in a clinical setting or home care as I performed with a vaping pen - can simultaneously speed recovery (and consequent immunity), reduce/eliminate complications and, most importantly, save lives.

In this environment - global pandemic [sic] - I submit that it’s the unknown tool in the toolbox for health practitioners and home-care patients alike, should my hypothesis be shown to have any merit whatsoever.

Most-pertinently, after 13 days since onset of my illness, no one else has signs of illness (other than my wife), including anyone at my place of employment where I was clearly contagious for anywhere between 2-20 days since I was exposed to this virus. This includes my wife’s workplace.

OUR EXPERIENCE IS DEMONSTRATIVE THAT spread of this virus is EASILY-CONTAINED by practicing personal responsibility and basic hygiene WITHOUT DRACONIAN/ILLEGAL POPULATION-CONTROL MEASURES AS-IMPLEMENTED BY MANY (overwhelmingly democrat-led) STATES.

Important note: Due to the nature of our work (IT-related), we both engage a heightened level of hygiene prevention without regard to this virus. Assuming that someday I can "prove" that we had the virus, our experience in preventing its spread and the ease with which I contracted it pose a conundrum for the experts which seek to control the spread of an illness caused by an insidious virus which is at least as-virulent as the common cold and a risk of death which is only statistically-viable for those with compromised immune systems and preexisting health conditions (comorbidity factors).

I remain convinced that our illness was caused by Wuhan Coronavirus, aka COVID-19, and that my self-treatment prevented complications by shortening the term of illness.

Update 3/18: *Within 24 hours of my fever breaking I received word that the first case of COVID-19 had been confirmed in Lane County, Oregon (my location). Although the doctor at Urgent Care didn’t want to admit it, my early symptoms were a spot-on match, though it could have been any other flu as well (besides A & B influenza). It was the stubborn manner in which this illness resided in my lungs which made me suspect that I was somehow exposed, but my theory was moot if there were no confirmed cases locally for over a week. How ironic that the first confirmed case was less than 24 hours after my fever broke.

Update 3/19: It is incumbent of me to inform the reader that although I experienced immediate results from vaping, progressive improvement did not manifest until I instilled a regimen of vaping every 30 minutes for 3-5 full inhales of vapor. Following that regimen my fever was gone in 8 hours. Although admittedly-anecdotal (lacking any laboratory tests whatsoever), I believe that my experience cannot be dismissed, particularly in this health emergency.

Full-disclosure: Because I was not prepared to become ill - an egregious error on my part, but knowledgeable of what was available in my household - the vaping juice I used while ill contained nicotine. As a former smoker, I knew what would result and assuredly it came to pass: Nicotine withdrawals on 3/18. While I was in town on 3/17 after my fever broke that morning - getting OTC medicine for my then-sick wife - I picked up the nicotine-free vaping juice pictured prior. I continued vaping irregularly with the Mint-flavored nicotine-free vape juice through 3/19 to both relieve the discomfort of coughing and ensure that my lungs were virus-free (a relapse was untenable, but possible based upon my research of other cases).

I put away the vaping pen 3/20 and shared half of my juice with a friend which he now has in his medicine cabinet with a new vape pen, hopefully not to be used, but likely to be needed considering the virulence of this bug. I remain convinced that I may have experienced severe complications had I not vaped, including lesions on my lungs and a more-lengthy illness. My state of health is unlikely to have resulted in the type of complications requiring hospitalization, but I am satisfied that the physical cause/effect of my vaping places my experience beyond being merely psychosomatic.

Update 3/26: I now recognize the full breadth of the dozen or so symptoms, having amended this Note and convinced that I contracted Wuhan Coronavirus Disease. Concurrent to recent reports of possible renal effects, it has taken nearly 2 full weeks for urinary function to return to (near) normal. I experienced reduced urinary output beginning on day 2 of my illness, a factor which supports my conclusion that this was not influenza C (an implied supposition by the doctor), but Wuhan Coronavirus (impaired kidney function - as well as renal failure - has been reported among those so-infected in some cases). Normally during an illness I’m urinating nearly every hour; in spite of my vastly-increased water intake, I was only urinating every 6-8 hours. To state that I was concerned is an understatement.

In short, it was clearly not the fever which was causing me to urinate only once/day during my illness (I was drinking about 3 liters of water/day for 5 days from onset of illness). In addition, for nearly 8 days after my fever broke I continued to experience some lightheadedness which I cannot ascribe to lung function (it was more like low blood pressure). When I had my BP taken at Urgent Care the first day of fever the nurse said it was high, but I cannot recall the reading. I will post my blood pressure at the earliest opportunity and amend here: _______

My kidney function has, for the most part, returned to normal as of day 10 post-illness.

Update 3/27: Loose stool continues. Diarrhea did not manifest until after my fever had broken and continued somewhat less as diarrhea but more loose stool for about 10 days with an excess of non-atypical flatulence. Bowel function is still not normal, but after a week of good sleep (I slept like crap during the 72 hour illness) my strength is normal. My lungs - thankfully - have fully-cleared despite a bout of post-nasal drip during the first week after the fever broke (pollen count here was >400 until a rainy front moved through Oregon). I have no shortness of breath and no impaired lung function. After a week of good sleep (I slept like crap during the 72 hour illness) my strength is normal and I feel great.

All things considered, I cannot complain about the fact that my bowel function is still not normal. The loose stool is a curiosity, but arbitrary medical testing is not in my budget (this too will pass, perhaps). It is reasonably & prudent to suspect that the virus may reside in my small intestine, echoing concerns outlined in a Chinese paper published early on in the Wuhan outbreak which posited spread of the virus from “virus-laden aerosol plume” similar to the 2003 SARS outbreak at Amoy Gardens in Hong Kong. 5 years prior to this illness, I had eradicated a parasitic infection of my small intestines (Candida) and harbor a healthy microbiome. If I engage another eradication regimen (I am averse: It’s not pleasant and likely ineffective against a viral parasitic infection of the intestines), I will amend with an update. For now, basic hygiene is the rule, but I remain concerned that my bowels may harbor active virus and, consequently, engage a simple rule in conjunction with basic hygiene concurrent with my healthy state of “regularity”: Bowel movements at home only.

Update 3/29: I am engaging Vitamin C mega-dose regimen in an attempt to normalize bowel function, beginning bedtime 3/28. I will amend later...

[null and void]

NOTE:

Propylene Glycol is NOT THE SAME AS Ethylene Glycol.........................

ABSOLUTELY!

Ethylene Glycol will KILL you.

Propylene Glycol is an approved food additive, it's used to keep baked good moist.

[logi_cal869]

Thanks. I remain curious about both ibuprofen and my bowel issues (I believe that the virus is residing in my small intestine, insulated from my immune system by my healthy gut).

The megadosing of C has helped. I’m doing a phase II this weekend where I’m close to my own facilities and won’t have any possibility of infecting others (a distinct risk).

As my illness progressed through Day 1 into Day 2, the headache was, on a scale of 1-10 compared to hangover, an 8. Ibuprofen normally kicks a headache for me, having ceased any acetaminophen 20+ years ago. I can’t say with any certainty that it worsened my illness, but it was wholly-ineffective, Tylenol being the only relief from the headache & body aches (I got little sleep the night after Day 1 for those reasons).

It was the nature of public reports which manifested in the past week which prompted the statement warning against use of ibuprofen.

Point of interest: The lung pain is what prompted me to have my wife dig up her spare vape pen. I got IMMEDIATE relief and the post outlines the rapid reduction of my fever after what I established as a regimen.

I WILL maintain the pen & juice in my medicine cabinet/GoBag as mitigation of RTI in the future. As a matter of fact, I am awaiting eventual notification from my parents that they have fallen ill and will be treating them in like manner (much to their chagrin; they’re both skeptics) and will amend with the (hopefully-positive) results.

[logi_cal869]

I doubt it. I’ve messaged nearly a dozen medical doctors and media in Italy and here to deaf ears.

Some comments even here reflect the nature of resistance to not a single case, but two cases.

I firmly believe that those who do vape will not experience complications, unwittingly & ironically partaking in their own healthful recovery and acquired immunity.

To be clear, I DO NOT believe that long-term vaping is healthful. To the contrary, there is adequate evidence of lung tissue damage to those who vape heavily and daily over a long-term.

That which I describe here is a TREATMENT REGIMEN with nicotine/pharmaceutical/marijuana-free vaping juice for the purpose of eradication of respiratory tract infection (RTI) and prevention of COVID-19 (Wuhan Coronavirus/SARS-CoV-2-caused) complications...

...and fatality prevention.

If I’m right, such basic intervention would eliminate nearly all hospitalizations from Wuhan Coronavirus and put this outbreak squarely in the realm of merely a combination of common cold & influenza...exposing as RECKLESS the interventions prescribed by Trump advisers Fauci & Birx.

[null and void]

IOW I can imagine the disinfectant effect on virions suspended in air, but how on an infection that has taken hold?

To the best of my knowledge, China has never seen fit to tell us what they are using to fog...

[Pollard]

I’ve been vaping to cut down on smoking. Originally I was going to swap to vaping and then slowly cut down on the strength of the vape juice until null and then quit but then all that stuff came out about Juul killing kids. Of course come to find out, they were refilling the disposable pods with who knows what. I might have to go back to my original plan starting now. I don’t do the candy or bubble gum flavored stuff. I have no idea what they use to make the tobacco flavored stuff I use. Bottle just has the standard Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerin, Nicotine plus “Natural & Artificial Flavors”.(trade secret like food) At one point I was down from 1 1/2 packs of smokes a day to half a pack and breathing was noticeably better.

thx

and no, we don’t wan to know about your bowel issues. LOL

oh, and I alone assume responsibility for anything I do.

[rlmorel]

LOL, as soon as I read that title, I knew...I just KNEW...someone is gonna slug some ethylene glycol.

You just know it.

And they will blame Trump in some way...

[1malumprohibitum]

Thank you!

[BDParrish]

Did you see this?
Ignore the first part about vapers being at greater risk, and see the last part. It looks like there is no answer to my poorly worded question.

I read the abstract and the abstracts for the footnoted articles. Full text pdf was one page(?) It is very clear they are referring to direct contact of PG with aerosolized bacteria (virions too).

[BDParrish]

Here is what I wanted you to see.
https://vaping360.com/vape-news/89213/vaping-and-coronavirus-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont/

[pa_dweller]

propylene glycol != ethylene glycol
==========+=======

I C what you did there.

[S.O.S121.500]

BOOKbump

[DannyTN]

Thanks for posting.

One of the side effects of vitamin C overdose is diarhea.

I too saw the 1942 and also tried to find studies involving human inhalation as a treatment for flu. And couldn't find anything.

• What I did find is that chronic vaping of PG along with the other chemicals in vaping juice, is believed to change the lungs in ways that make them more susceptible to infections.
• However, I did see a study that said short term exposure to PG, such as may occur in an industrial spill, caused no changes to the lungs.
• PG was studied for it's disinfectant properties which it was successful at.
• PG is actually used to deactivate flu for vaccines.

The idea of inhaling a subtance with no or very low toxicity to directly combat the virus in the lungs seems like a very plausible strategy.

It's disappointing that the medical community has not followed up on what looks like a very promising and low cost treatment for the flu. If we could save most of the lives lost to flu and/or coronavirus, that would be great.

PG is used for theater fog and haunted house fog. Where it's been breathed in by many with no obvious harmful effects.

For myself I bought a couple of bottles of haunted house fog juice which is PG and water. And a fog machine. I haven't bought a vaping pen yet, but that would be more convenient than using the fog machine and fogging a whole room or setting up a vapor tent.

[DannyTN]

ping

[Nailbiter]

Flr

[steve86]

Don’t have time at the moment to read all through but glad you are better. I averred to fireman15 over a month ago that PG might turn out to be a useful agent but got a hostile response back.

[RinaseaofDs]

Thank you! I was just wondering if this was vaporized anti-freeze. Many thanks.

[logi_cal869]

Never saw that. Thanks.

Money quote:

“...we cannot exclude the possibility that the use of propylene glycol might have some beneficial effects.”

Gee...couldn’t possibly be a threat to a multibillion dollar pharmaceutical contract, could it???

[my job]

Thanks for your careful informative post. I really try to stay away from hospitals, nothing but sick people there. The AMA is...well follow the money. I have been using colloidal silver for several years as a disinfectant. ( silveredge.com ) Do your own research, or ask if you have questions I can help with. YMMV
I am in Yamhill county OR, lots of precautions here, and some cases still happening.

[chulaivn66]

I appreciate your post. Currently dosing at 65% PG and a more or less continuous vaper former smoker. I am in constant contact with three pestilence spreading grandchildren and do not succumb to their infections despite constant close contacts. I have not had the CCP virus as yet. I will let you know how it goes when I contract the disease if I survive it. Unlikely due to underlying conditions.

[BDParrish]

Sounds like there are people on the same page as you.
There is always a temporary resistance. Monopoly protection. Luddites. But eventually with God’s help, the truth comes out.

Where is that patent for the 100 mpg engine?
Knew of a man in Warner Robins with big ideas about that. We thought he was...uh... the guy was crazy as a loon. This kook thought up an engine that was part gasoline and part electric and wanted to build it himself. Something about a small jet turbine charging batteries in an AMC Pacer. Now the idea is accepted everywhere. And no he had nothing nothing whatsoever to do with the development of the hybrid vehicle. What really happened was the gas crisis was long forgotten, the Japanese started selling lightweight fuel efficient cars and people went on to other things.