Posted on 01/17/2019 2:31:08 AM PST by Ozguy1945
Is Indonesia the missing link in the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (between India, Australia, Japan and America) created as a response to the rise of China?
Do Free Republic readers believe reaching out in friendship to Indonesia is in the interests of The West?
Indonesia is the world’s biggest Islamic majority nation but has also been profoundly influenced by Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and secular western culture. Tolerance is stronger than fanaticism in Indonesian Islam.
The country’s first president, Sukarno, was an engineer and thus the driving force in 1945 along with eight other Indonesian founding fathers in crafting Pancasila, a philosophical statement of the nation’s five founding principles: faith in one God, civilised humanity, national unity, consensus discussion in political decision making and social justice for all. The final principle does have elements of socialism in it. But Pancasila emphatically rejects materialistic atheistic communism, in favour of a nationalism which embraces religion and tradition.
Indonesia is now a democracy as a result of a momentous popular uprising in the late 1990’s against authoritarian rule. Indonesia is forecast to be the world’s 4th or 5th biggest economy by 2050.
In today’s world we face a very prosperous formally communist and totalitarian China which has embraced capitalism in its economy without embracing individual freedom and political democracy. Many of us are uncertain and even scared about how this increasingly rich country might use the power which comes with wealth. The military bases and “nine dot line” in the South China Sea are an expansion of Chinese power.
In 2007 the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (QSD, also known as the Quad) was formed as an informal strategic dialogue between the United States, Japan, Australia and India. In this context Indonesia appears to be neutral. I believe Indonesia is a missing link in an effective approach at containing Chinese expansion. If Indonesia sides with China on strategic and territorial issues, then Chinese expansion into the South China Sea will be very hard to contain or turn back. A nightmare scenario for Australia is a collapse in American power due to economic collapse caused by unsustainable debt accompanied by an Indonesian Chinese alliance looking covetously at the large Australian continent with a very low population. At the moment no such Indonesian Chinese alliance exists. But one of the best protections for Australia against such a possibility is the best possible friendship with Indonesia.
So I, as a writer, believe I can serve the interests of my own nation and the western world of which contemporary Australia is very much a part now, by promoting better understanding of Indonesia in Australia and among our allies.
What do Free Republic readers think about the potential role of Indonesia in containing Chinese power as close as possible to China and in protecting Australia from the possibility of becoming a target of possible future territorial ambitions by the world’s most populous nation?
As a westerner, I want my country to remain a part of a free, democratic western world.
This commentary on my favourite Indonesian movie aims to assist that goal: https://tujuhbelasan.com/2019/01/16/austral-indonesian-tujuhbelasan-6-about-tendangan-dari-langit/
Think Bali. The nation is Moozlems. That means like the OJ jury. Set up. They were happy about 911. Even after the Bali bombings. Look at the riots after the Van Gogh cartoons making fun of Mohammed.
I guess it depends on what you fear most:
An expansionist communist China or Islam?
Oceania is doing fine.
Good point Spark. THEY ARE ISLAM. Biggest country. Shows you how far it’s spread. Yuigars in China, militants in Mindanao.
No Muslims.
I think Philippines is the (or “a”) missing link.
Indonesia has tried to become a secular state where Islam is the dominant religion - and has come closer to that than I ever expected them to. But they haven’t done it yet - especially in places like Aceh.
If we see the central government acting to reign in the fundamentalists in those provinces, then maybe they can make this work, and if they can, then, yes, I could see them as having real potential as a real partner to Australia in a lot of ways.
But until then, it has to be limited.
That doesn’t mean I want bad relationships with them - I certainly don’t - but caution is the only sensible approach for the moment.
I’m a retired officer of the ADF - RAN specifically - and I think military cooperation is one place where we probably can have a close relationship precisely because their military largely embraces secularism and takes Pancasila very seriously.
And whether our relationship with them becomes a partnership or not, I want Indonesia to be a healthy, secular, democratic society - for the sake of the Indonesians themselves.
Fundamentalism is true Islam. As such, no Muslim country will ever be able to suppress it indefinitely. The pull is too strong.
It’s a big mistake for western democracies to get cozy with Islamic countries. It will increase Muslim emigration to those democracies which sows the seeds of destruction in those western democracies.
It makes sense you’d want that for the people there, but they are an Islamic nation.
Only if Indonesia eschews islime at a constitutional level. And we know the slimes will never let that happen.
In my very humble opinion all Australia needs from Indonesia is for their citizens to stop arriving,uninvited,on Australia's shores.
Some of us used to think that about Turkey. Be careful with this. There is no "moderate islam", or "radical islam" ... there is only islam. Your "moderate" mohammedan is one who just doesn't take it seriously. Right now. If he ever "gets religion", he'll be at your throat.
Very astute observations.
Developing a relationship with Indonesia is a good idea.
I have spent six months in Australia.
I detected what I thought was a growing Chinese influence.
Much of the Australian economy is intertwined with China.
I share your concerns.
Think Turkey. All it takes is one wackadoodle leader and Indonesia turns wackadoodle over night. Instead, open up immigration from RSA and take in the Boers. The cultural hybrid vigor would be scary. It would be like crossing Kudzu with Cane Toads. You would not need anyone else. (Remember the Boers were under world embargo for oil, weapons, etc. so they just buttoned down and made their own)
At least the Chinese are somewhat rational.
I just got back from Australia, Sydney in particular.
I seriously thought I was in China the whole time, with all of the Chinese tourists there.
They have been rational up until recently. Their expansion into South China Sea and the Spratly Islands may be a precursor to intimidating Taiwan back into China. We’re lucky they have traditionally been non-expansionist.
Islam is a dagger aimed at the heart of western civilization.
Take your pick. To me, it’s a matter of “China could,” while “Islam will.”
It is possible that nether Islam nor China will threaten anyone’s capacity to continue to rule their own countries. Please note I say “possible” ..... I dont think anyone knows for sure.
China is a very tightly controlled one party state. They are so successful as a trading nation that they may be wise enough to avoid wars. NB ....... MAY BE .......
Muslim nations in the middle east are constantly fighting each other.
21st century democratic Indonesia does not start wars.
Batton down not button down.
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