[BroJoeK]

jeffersondem: "The South’s attempt to defend its homestall was a defensive war.
Your attempt to draw moral equivalency is - well, to be expected."

Total rubbish, since the Confederacy's war was an absolute war of aggression against the United States.
There was nothing "defensive" about it.
That one battle -- Fort Sumter -- converted four Union states to the Confederacy, but it wasn't enough for Jefferson Davis & Co.
They immediately began assaults on Unionists in other states -- Missouri and Maryland notably, but eventually in more than a dozen Union states & territories, including: Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, West Virginia, Kansas, Oklahoma & New Mexico, plus guerilla warfare in California, Colorado and even Vermont.

So, only their relative weaknesses kept Confederates "defensive", and whenever they had the opportunity to pick off or disrupt a Union state, they took it.
It's what made the Confederacy an existential threat, one that Lincoln (but not northern Democrats) was determined to defeat.

jeffersondem: "While you are at it, denigrate this: “That to secure these rights, Governemnts are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers..."

Sure, and nearly all 1861 Unionists (including Lincoln) believed that had the Deep South Fire Eaters contented themselves with declaring secession and setting up a Confederacy, the Union could not use force to stop them.
But "hands off" ended when Jefferson Davis ordered Civil War to begin at Fort Sumter.
Soon after, on May 6, 1861 the Confederacy formally declared war on the United States thus sealing their ultimate fate: Unconditional Surrender.

[jeffersondem]

“Sure, and nearly all 1861 Unionists (including Lincoln) believed that had the Deep South Fire Eaters contented themselves with declaring secession and setting up a Confederacy, the Union could not use force to stop them.”

So we all agree, and “nearly all of 1861 Unionists” agreed, states have the right to secede.

I did not know this.

[DiogenesLamp]

Sure, and nearly all 1861 Unionists (including Lincoln) believed that had the Deep South Fire Eaters contented themselves with declaring secession and setting up a Confederacy, the Union could not use force to stop them.

It would have cost the United States, 3/4ths of all export trade with Europe. It would have wrecked the shipping industry, the manufacturing industry, and would have left the Union Coastal states in serious economic distress.

And you think the Power Baron/Government coalition was too stupid to notice this?

If you think this war was about anything other than lots and lots of money, you are naive.