AZ: Reloading Accident Fires House; Bullets Bounce off Firefighters, Trucks

Gun Watch ^ | 10 February, 2016 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Picture courtesy 12news.com

A house fire in Gilbert, Arizona, appears to be a rare case of a reloading accident getting out of hand.  No one has determined the cause of the accident.  I hope that smoking was not involved.  One of the things forbidden to reloaders is to smoke while engaged in the hobby.  The reloader suffered burns to his face and upper body.  That is likely why the fire got out of hand.  It would not have taken much to get the three vehicles out of the garage.  Their loss was certainly a substantial percentage of the total loss of the house, which looks to be in the $200,000 range. From 12news.com

"As the ammo was kicking off, one actually hit me right in the face mask," Gilbert firefighter Mase Mattingly said. "It bounced up and landed right in my hand."

Fire officials said the ammunition did not have enough velocity to penetrate their protective gear.

Even so, the fire truck Mattingly rode in to the fire had several bullet strikes in the paint.

Sad, all that ammunition going to waste, not to mention the vehicles and the house...

But when you consider the millions of reloaders in the United States, this sort of accident is extremely rare. This is the first one I have heard of in 50 years. Yes, I have been reloading that long.

Notice that the bullets did not have enough force to penetrate the fireman's protective gear, or even do more than chip paint on the fire trucks.  

Firefighters have known for years that burning small arms ammunition produces a very low level of danger  to firemen.   This is from the SAAMI paper, "Facts About Sporting Ammunition Fires":

 Ammunition fired in the open, not enclosed in a gun's chamber, discharges with such inefficiency that the projectile will not even penetrate an ordinary fiberboard shipping container panel at very close range. When not strongly and tightly confined, smokeless propellant powders burn relatively slowly and do not explode as we know they do when fired in a gun. Pressure within a cartridge case must build up to several thousand pounds per square inch to cause the cartridge to discharge as it does in a gun. Unless it is tightly confined, as in a gun chamber, no ammunition shell case will withstand the growing pressure of gases generated by burning propellant powder without bursting before the bullet or shot is expelled with violence or velocity.  

Casings propelled by this type of action would have to impact exposed skin or eyes to have any effect. Notice what appears to be a 12 gauge metal base and a 9 mm bullet lying together in the street.  Of course, the photographer might have put them together for dramatic effect.

The point is that they have little velocity to do damage, and are not very dangerous.  Gunpowder is somewhat less flammable than gasoline, and we do not worry about people having much more gasoline than people have, generally, gunpowder for reloading cartridges.  Even 10 gallons of gasoline is equivalent to 70 pounds of gun powder, which is enough for 100,000 rounds of 9 mm or .45 ammunition.

©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
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[marktwain]

This is the first house fire that I have ever heard of that was arguably caused by reloading. It would be nice to get details of exactly what happened. I hope the reloader was not smoking.

[Bidimus1]

But it will be used as a reason to ban...something...

The propane cylinder on a gas grill is probably more dangerous

http://www.propane101.com/propanecylinderexplosions.htm

[DirtyPigpen]

I’d like to know too. I’m really careful so this screams negligence.

[Mouton]

A buddy of mine used to defend lawsuits against a gas grill company. He said he would not personally have one of those anywhere near his home. I laughed as I asked how do you want your steak as I was grilling on one at the time. He went into the garage on the otherside of the house and yelled, rare and turn that damn thing off!

[Bulwyf]

I am getting setup to reload. I have a few things, but still missing a press, I wanted to go with a Dillon 650 or some such.

Stories like this make me nervous, but I’ve read enough books and watched enough videos, that if I do my due diligence, I’m confident it will be good.

It’s just hard to find 6.5 Creedmoor right now, and I love that new Ruger Precision I bought, it’s a very accurate long distance rifle for the price you pay.

[Kenton]

I doubt that they were hit by "bullets", but rather with the spent empty shell casings. The "bullets" are a LOT heavier than the shell casings, and the bullets themselves would probably just be sitting there on his reloading bench.

The shell casings might sting a little, but it's a lot better than getting hit by lead projectiles.

[ichabod1]

There oughtta be a law!

[IMR 4350]

Better start with a single stage to learn on and work up loads.

You will also need a single stage if you have to reform brass.

A heavy closed “D” or “O” frame not an open “C” frame.

[Bulwyf]

Dillon 650 will reform brass.

I was hoping to get that and just use as a single stage til I got the hang of it. Another poster said though that a single stage isn’t that expensive, so perhaps I can do both.

Thank for you the advice, and I’m looking forward to a new hobby, and a productive one heh.

[IMR 4350]

A good used single stage like RCBS is only about $50-$75.

The entire set up new is less than or about $400.

Depending on what powder you use, for max accuracy you might want to or even have to weigh each powder charge anyway.

With a single stage once you get your rhythm down and a system set up to follow, in a couple of loading sessions of a few hours each you can have several hundred rounds loaded.

[Bulwyf]

Do you weigh individual rounds each time? I thought if you had your grain count down, you’d just add the appropriate amount of grains?

I’ve read the books, and yes powder is definitely important as to the grain you’re loading into the case to get maximum accuracy.

I want to take this 6.5 out to 1000+ yards. With factory ammo, I zeroed, and fired three rounds, and they almost went in the same hole. We used the chronograph and took the average velocity, the grain etc, then we calculated the ranges.

Only having just zeroed, after the calculations, I was able to hit an 8 inch plate at 500 yards with the first round.

My friend then ranged a few other targets, and using the range card we had built, I’d add or subtract some clicks, then first round strikes again on some pretty small plates.

I’m impressed with the inherent accuracy of that round and the rifle. I’m expecting very good results from reloading to even further the excellence that Ruger put out.

[Lurker]

Once I get my powder throw dialed in I check about ever tenth case or so just to make sure nothing has changed. Some powders are trickier than others, especially stick types. I find I get more variance in powder weight with them.

Not enough to be concerned about, I’m talking plus or minus a quarter grain or so. Since I never approach max loads it’s not a safety issue but it will affect accuracy and velocity.

Ball powders meter much more uniformly which is why Varget is my “go to” rifle powder for the calibers I reload. Bullseye and Unique are my preferred pistol powders for the same reason.

Guys who are psychotic will measure every single load for absolute maximum powder uniformity. I’ve seen folks weigh each case for the same reason.

L

[Axenolith]

A guy who attended an airgun match out at my place brought out a 6.5 on a savage action, that thing was a dream. We could hit softball sized objects at 600 yards with it resting on a bag on his pickup bed. WANT! :-)

[DirtyPigpen]

As long as you do your job, you won’t blow up.

[IMR 4350]

“Do you weigh individual rounds each time”

Sometimes depends on the powder and what you are trying to do with the round.

Hunting loads a few tenths of a grain up or down usually doesn’t make much difference.

Long range max accuracy and you will have to weigh each load.

Throw the charge into the scales pan then weigh the charge and use a powder dribbler to get the exact load you want.

With certain powders you might even get up to a slight compressed load for max accuracy and you might have to tap the case when you pour the powder in to make sure it’s settled in the case or it can spill over the top.

You will also need to inspect your cases after sizing and decapping to see if they are split or need to be trimmed to the same length.

You might want to clean out the primer pocket and primer hole before priming too.

For long range max accuracy you need to take your time not rush through you reloading.

[Bulwyf]

Thanks for the tips.

I have no desire to go near maximum loads etc either, I’m just looking for accuracy and consistency.

Spot checking is something I’ve thought about, and will carry out of course.

Powders here in Alberta are getting more plentiful again, so I’ll keep loading up on stuff that the books say are good powders for the weight I’m wanting to push out the barrel heh.

I’ll definitely be eyeing the ball powders though too, thanks for that heads up.

[NorthMountain]

My reloading bench is in a different room from my bulk powder and primer storage. I never have more than 1lb powder and 100 primers on the bench at any time. Yes, that means I have to get up, walk down the hall, and pick up another box of primers several times during a reloading session.

No worries ... I need the exercise.

[Bulwyf]

There’s a lot of talk about the 6.5 Creedmoor being the new .308.

While I love the .308, there is a lot of credibility there. Up to about 500 yards, a 140 grain 6.5 will pretty much match .308, then after 500 the 6.5 edges out because of the kinetic energy.

I do love .308 though still, and it’s a true battle rifle round.

We shall see how it all plays out as it gains popularity and whether other manufacturers start producing them.

By the way, if you’re married and wanting to buy new firearms, don’t ask permission, just go get it, and say it was always there lol. They usually don’t pay much attention to what you have anyways heh.

[Lurker]

My pleasure.

I don’t reload that particular cartridge so I have no idea if Varget is appropriate or not. It’s harder to find than hens teeth these days, too. But if your manual says it’s ok to use and you can locate some I recommend it without hesitation.

Good luck.

L

[Bulwyf]

Thanks again L, I’ll follow up later when I’ve been setup and running and test fired a few heh.