Posted on 02/01/2016 12:21:23 PM PST by juliosevero
And it could fairly be observed that the murderous habits the Protestants carried, while orders of magnitude less than that of the human organization they broke off from, were mostly not developed by themselves but inherited from the human organization that they disavowed the practices of, but disavowed less well than they thought. A significantly independently biblical take on Christianity took a long time to redevelop. A long period of relearning was necessary.
Most of this grief could have been avoided had the church refused to be incorporated in to Caesar. You are never going to be able to do that kind of amalgam in a godly way.
“Oh dear, if this is worship of Trinity, who would want Trinity?”
Who said it was worship of the Trinity? Are you resorting to making up things that people never said already?
“The Protestants have vastly outclassed you and you are bitter jealous.”
Wow, what projection you have.
YOU did! You said that is where the church was concentrated on.
Now you are going to admit you were a liar?
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Talkin’ about YOU.
And as for projection? You look like a movie plex.
Literally your shit don’t stink. That’s what you’re saying.
And look at that childish taunt in your tag. The church needs THIS?
YOU need JESUS, sir.
What about Protestants apologizing for their murder of Catholics?
The Spanish Inquisition should be compare with the Protestant Inquisition during the same historical context.
The British Jewish historian Henry Kamen, well-known scholar of the Spanish Inquisition, has calculated a total of some 2,000 victims put to death along its four centuries of existence.
Kamen adds that “ it is interesting to compare the statistics on sentences to death of civilians and inquisitorial tribunals between the 15th and 18th centuries in Protestant Europe: for every one hundred death sentences handed down by courts, the Inquisition (Catholic) issued one.Â
According to Professor Philip Wayne Powell, were executed just over 100 people in the 250 years in which it was acting the Inquisition in the Spanish America.
The number of Protestants condemned to death by the Catholic Inquisition, from 1520 until 1820 that was deleted, or in 300 years, according to the German Protestant researcher who specialized in this subject, Schafer, was 220; of them, only 12 were burned.
Allow me to present historical facts regarding the Protestant Inquisition.
Sir James Stephen calculates that in 300 years there was in Protestant England 264,000 sentenced to death for various crimes. About 800 per year (more than two per day).
Luther, founder of Protestantism, in 1525 writes the nobles: “how many farmers can kill: wound, paste, disgorging to himself.†Happy if you die in it, you die in obedience to the word divine. More than one hundred thousand peasants perished. Luther also demanded that the heretics must be condemned without hearing them... “ (Amazing parallel with the current Islamofascism).
Luther wrote in July 1525 in his open letter against the peasants: “If you believe that this answer is too hard and that its only purpose is to let them shut up by violence, I reply that this is true - a rebel does not deserve to be replied with reasons, because does not accept them.†The appropriate response is a punch that causes you to bleed nose. The farmers don’t want to hear... need to open them ears with bullets until they their heads explode. Who does not want to hear the word of God when is told with goodness has to listen to the executioner when it arrives with his axe... I don’t want to hear or know nothing of mercy.â€
About Jews in his famous lectures of desktop Luther said: “throwing the Jews sulfur and tar, if one could throw them fire from hell, so much better.... and this must be done in honor of our Lord and of Christianity¦Their houses must be chipped and destroyed... be removed their books of prayers and Talmud, their rabbis are prohibited from teaching, under the penalty of death, from now on. And if all this were little, they must be expelled from the country as rabid dogs.â€
In Protestant Germany, more than 100,000 witches were burned. Even children seven years old and dying elderly. A single judge burned in 16 years 800 witches (an average of 50 people a year).
In 1560 the Scottish Parliament decreed the death penalty against all Catholics. Here are some articles of the English code for Ireland:
“Catholic teaching to other Catholic or Protestant shall be hanged.â€
“If a Catholic acquires land, all Protestant has the right to deprive him.â€
“Perpetual exile to every Catholic priest; those who evaded it, be half hanged alive and then dismemberedâ€.
The Calvinist communities of Paris, Orleans, Rouen, Lyon, Angey at their general synod in 1559, enacted death penalty to the heretics.
Should be taken into account that the Protestant Inquisition existed in most of Europe in which inmates lacked any legal protection and of which no one speaks.
Catholics on the other hand not enjoyed any legal protection under the Protestants, standing out for its cruelty the reigns of Elizabeth I and James I of England when Catholics were dismembered tied to the legs of four horses. They were times of great barbarity when attached to an English monarch the privilege of the divorce by beheading of his wife.
“Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it”Jorge Santayana
This kind of fighting was going to go on until churches finally got out of the Caesar business.
Doesn’t mean Caesar can’t be a Christian or use Christian wisdom. Does mean that his office can never be an arm of an ecclesiastical organization. Pastors, teachers, deacons, elders, etc. weren’t given to run secular City Hall (that’s stupid!) but the hallowed City on a Hill.
“There was nothing Christian about the church that did these ghastly acts.”
Sure there was - Christ’s Church is filled with men and certainly not all of them are perfect.
“Not even of only against one person.”
What?
“And love your defense, “protestants did it tooâ€.”
I made no such defense. Care to make up something else I did not say?
“Of course they did. And too bad the 38 snub hadn’t been invented. Because the protestant judges at Salem, guys like Calvin himself, and a few others deserved a bullet at the moment they were engaged in ecclesiastical murder.”
They were not murdering the Church - that’s what “ecclesiastical murder” would mean. Perhaps you’re thinking of “judicial murder”. The two cannot be synonymous nor are they interchangeable in sense.
“And I can happily say none were ordained by Jesus or doing his work.”
I wouldn’t say that about even Protestants when it comes to “doing his work”. The Holy Spirit works in mysterious ways.
“Neither was Rome back then.”
Actually, the Church has always done Christ’s work. The problem is that many people today - especially those who are products of poor education - often have no idea what was going on back then.
“Thankfully they are not in error these days.”
Who isn’t?
“I do not assign the slightest guilt to the Roman church today.”
You have no power to assign guilt in any case.
“But I also do not accept that the church back then was anything but evil, small minded and oppressive.”
Actually, no. And quite frankly you probably have no knowledge of the time or people involved, right?
“Most protestants of the era suffered the same disgusting leaders.”
No, they were different. I bet you don’t know what the difference is.
“But you wont find a protestant celebrating Salem.”
I don’t think you’re seeing anyone celebrating the inquisition either. What you will see, however, is people who actually tell the truth about it rather than spouting nonsense based nothing.
“The pope does not agree with you that protestants are damned.”
How could he since I never, EVER, said any such thing. Care you make up something else while you’re at it? Pointing out that souls are destroyed by heresies is not a statement that all Protestants are damned. You really are making up things out of thin air. I guess that’s what you have to resort to, right?
“You can complain to the Vatican if you disagree.”
We don’t: “Certainly this suffices to show superabundantly by how many roads Modernism leads to the annihilation of all religion. The first step in this direction was taken by Protestantism; the second is made by Modernism; the next will plunge headlong into atheism.” (Pope Pius X, Pascendi, 39, (1907).
Attack what I ACTUALLY say all you want. But to falsely say I said something I NEVER said is simply wrong and sinful.
Everybody, just take into account v’s childish taunts.
Consider the source.
Pass it by.
The church needs this spokesbeing like it needs a hole in the head.
I mean... this is about as smart as asking the DMV to run your church.
No Thanks.
Well even at the worst (from a Protestant viewpoint) it had to be able to give rise to Martin Luther and others. Can’t be utterly dead for that.
The bible says wheat and tares. It never said how much of each one.
You wrote: “YOU did! You said that is where the church was concentrated on.”
Now you’re changing your story. Here, let me help you out of your apparently self-induced confusion.
You falsely stated in post #5: “A church that at this point in time mostly worshiped itself.”
I responded in post #10: “No, actually entirely focused on the worship of the Trinity.”
You then falsely stated in post 13: “Oh dear, if this is worship of Trinity, who would want Trinity?”
Now that means YOU were directly equating the inquisition with worship of the Trinity. You’re the only one who did that. I certainly did not do it.
I said in post 22: “Who said it was worship of the Trinity? Are you resorting to making up things that people never said already?”
So, now, you are stating another falsehood: “YOU did! You said that is where the church was concentrated on.”
I said the Church was “entirely focused on the worship of the Trinity.” I never said the inquisition was worship. The Church was entirely focused in its worship on the worship of the Trinity. The Church worshiped no one else - which was your original claim.
“Now you are going to admit you were a liar?”
I didn’t lie in the least. You’re the one who keeps making objectively false statements. I made none.
“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Talkin’ about YOU.”
No, it’s clearly projection again.
“And as for projection? You look like a movie plex.”
Ooooh. I guess you missed the IMAX jutting out of your eye.
“Literally your shit don’t stink. That’s what you’re saying.”
Nope. But since you keep falsely stating what I did and did not say you have to resort to saying that too, right?
“And look at that childish taunt in your tag.”
I put it there for people like you. And it’s obviously true if you have to comment on it and put up post after post of cyber hyperventilation.
“The church needs THIS?”
Do you think the Church needs what you post?
“YOU need JESUS, sir.”
I already know Him, serve Him, and love Him. Maybe you’ll make those choices one day.
I once made the mistake of explaining this to a staunch catholic apologist with a closed mind, and I pointed out to this individual that even the stained glass windows could be used to bring someone completely illiterate to Christ during the darkest periods.
“Everybody, just take into account v’s childish taunts.”
Wow, considering that you are posting objectively false statements that’s quite the comment from you.
“Consider the source.”
Please do! I have a PhD in history and my specialty was Church History in the Middle Ages. I have researched the inquisition for more than 25 years, have read hundreds of books and articles, given public presentations on it back in the day and will be doing so soon again I’m sure, so, yes, please consider the source.
“Pass it by.”
No, pass it on.
“The church needs this spokesbeing like it needs a hole in the head.”
Thankfully you don’t get to decide what the Church needs or gets. God does. And, so far, He’s been using pretty extensively in that respect. I’ll be working with nearly 80 people at one place this week - and that includes Protestants - who want to know the truth about the Catholic faith.
And, in regard to “The church needs this spokesbeing like it needs a hole in the head” I’ll post something I posted to someone else who also seemed to have no clue what he was talking about a couple of weeks or so ago:
Just before Christmas someone who I have been helping gave me a Christmas card with this written inside [I’m going to change or cut out all of the personal details because you have no right to those and I have enough anti-Catholic stalkers issuing death threats as it is]:
begin paste:
Dear [vladimir998],
I just want you to know that in [what she does] for 32 yrs. and all the [teaching in the Faith] we’ve gotten it doesn’t hold a candle to [...] you are giving us.
I have used so much of what you have given us in my [work and faith sharing]. [People I work with and share my faith with] have been given a new inspiration to read the Bible and integrate it to their [...] lives.
You have been an inspiration to me and my faith. Thank you so much.
Have a blessed Christmas,
End paste. (taken from the thread called: A Review of “Inventing the Individual: The Origins of Western Liberalism” 1/24/2016, 5:05:53 PM · post 17 of 23).
In other words, I know the truth. No matter what you make up out of thin air or make up to attack me with I know the truth.
Obviously, you have been spared even the shortest versions of the European religious wars.
The founders of the United States weren't fleeing the "inquisition."
There certainly weres enough bloody hands to go around.
We all must allow for the fact that most redneck historical "experts" can't even grasp the distinction between "jealous" and "envious."
What about Protestants apologizing for their murder of Catholics? Because we do not represent the church that so, and do not support one particular church, unlike some RCs here, we do not support such, and which early Prots had to unlearn, as well as other things from Rome.
Kamen adds that “ it is interesting to compare the statistics on sentences to death of civilians and inquisitorial tribunals between the 15th and 18th centuries in Protestant Europe: for every one hundred death sentences handed down by courts, the Inquisition (Catholic) issued one.
I think Kamen is disputed, and while i believe figures are exaggerated, here is one man's work to consider: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.html
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