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To: Dqban22
adly, too often (just) some of the history from the other side is fitting in the light of one-sided self-righteous indignation by a few whose irrational rage against a man they

What about Protestants apologizing for their murder of Catholics? Because we do not represent the church that so, and do not support one particular church, unlike some RCs here, we do not support such, and which early Prots had to unlearn, as well as other things from Rome.

Kamen adds that “ it is interesting to compare the statistics on sentences to death of civilians and inquisitorial tribunals between the 15th and 18th centuries in Protestant Europe: for every one hundred death sentences handed down by courts, the Inquisition (Catholic) issued one.

I think Kamen is disputed, and while i believe figures are exaggerated, here is one man's work to consider: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.html

40 posted on 02/01/2016 4:06:29 PM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212

“I think Kamen is disputed,”

He is not disputed on any major estimate - SINCE HE BASES ALL OF HIS ESTIMATES ON ACTUAL INQUISITION SOURCES.

“... and while i believe figures are exaggerated, here is one man’s work to consider: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/estimates.html";

What you’ve linked to is an atrociously ridiculous collection of fraudulent works like Llorente’s. Notice that
David A. Plaisted relies on anti-Catholic works from the nineteenth century. For his conclusions he doesn’t he use works - verified works - based on the actual sources of the inquisition. Why not??? Also, it should be noted that Plaisted doesn’t even have an accurate estimate of the population of Europe in the Middle Ages let alone an estimate of those executed. That webpage isn’t taken seriously by any reputable historian - whether Protestant, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or secular humanist.

The fact that he doesn’t use the most well known and most well researched sources - HE USES NOT A SINGLE SOURCE FROM THE INQUISITION FOR INSTANCE - won’t stop a single anti-Catholic from relying on him. To them the facts just don’t matter.


47 posted on 02/01/2016 5:16:54 PM PST by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: daniel1212

An example of how he is a moron:

Plaisted wrote: (begin paste)

Gottfried Christian Voigt�(1740-1791) extrapolated from his section of Germany�to calculate 9,442,994 witches�killed throughout Europe. From this came the common estimate of 9 million.

— Selected Death Tolls for Wars, Massacres and Atrocities Before the 20th Century, by Matthew White.

Therefore the figure of 9 million witches�killed also has a source and was not made up. From these two examples it is possible to infer Middleton�s approach: All of the figures he gave were obtained form another source.� None of the figures were increased; in fact some of them may even have been reduced.� Even the figure of 30,000,000 Mexicans�and Peruvians�killed, for which we do not have a source, is not too far off from the estimate of 15 million given by Schmucker, cited above.

(end paste)

I first came across this 9 million witches executed myth in 2000. I was debating a feminist moron who insisted Christians were worse than Muslims in terms of violence. She had no idea of what she was talking about. She insisted that Christians executed 9 million witches during the witch hunts of the late Middle Ages and early modern period. I was stunned she could be so patently stupid. I asked her where on earth she got this ridiculous number from. She said she got it from reading Gadon’s Once and Future Goddess book which is a pile of trash to say the least: http://www.amazon.com/The-Once-Future-Goddess-Reemergence/dp/B002KE488Y

Here’s why the 9 million number makes no sense:

1) The witch hunts - so-called - started (depending on which historian you use) in the 14th or 15th century and ended in the 17th century.
2) That means - even if we use complete centuries - we’re talking about either 400 years or 300 years (again if we use COMPLETE centuries).
3) If you do the math: 400 years (x 365 days per year) divided into 9,000,000 = 61. Sixty-one people would have to have been executed EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR 365 DAYS A YEAR FOR 400 YEARS STRAIGHT to get to 9,000,000.
4) If that happened, that number of sources on such an incredibly high number of executions happening every, single day for 400 years would be VOLUMINOUS! We would have tens of thousands of sources documenting it: municipal ledgers, court records, ecclesiastical court records, jail records, diocesan records, parish records, imperial or royal records and decrees, broadsides, journals and diaries, noble court literature, letters, wills, civil suit filings, confraternity records, tradesman records, bills, receipts, church art work, secular art worker, street and plaza names.

And we have NONE OF THAT. Because. It. Never. Happened.


48 posted on 02/01/2016 5:39:07 PM PST by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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