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Confederate Flag Needs To Be Raised, Not Lowered (contains many fascinating facts -golux)
via e-mail | Thursday, July 9, 2015 | Chuck Baldwin

Posted on 07/11/2015 9:54:21 AM PDT by golux

The Confederate Flag Needs To Be Raised, Not Lowered

Ladies and gentlemen, I submit that what we see happening in the United States today is an apt illustration of why the Confederate flag was raised in the first place. What we see materializing before our very eyes is tyranny: tyranny over the freedom of expression, tyranny over the freedom of association, tyranny over the freedom of speech, and tyranny over the freedom of conscience.

In 1864, Confederate General Patrick Cleburne warned his fellow Southerners of the historical consequences should the South lose their war for independence. He was truly a prophet. He said if the South lost, “It means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy. That our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by all of the influences of History and Education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.” No truer words were ever spoken.

History revisionists flooded America’s public schools with Northern propaganda about the people who attempted to secede from the United States, characterizing them as racists, extremists, radicals, hatemongers, traitors, etc. You know, the same way that people in our federal government and news media attempt to characterize Christians, patriots, war veterans, constitutionalists, et al. today.

Folks, please understand that the only people in 1861 who believed that states did NOT have the right to secede were Abraham Lincoln and his radical Republicans. To say that southern states did not have the right to secede from the United States is to say that the thirteen colonies did not have the right to secede from Great Britain. One cannot be right and the other wrong. If one is right, both are right. How can we celebrate our Declaration of Independence in 1776 and then turn around and condemn the Declaration of Independence of the Confederacy in 1861? Talk about hypocrisy!

In fact, Southern states were not the only states that talked about secession. After the Southern states seceded, the State of Maryland fully intended to join them. In September of 1861, Lincoln sent federal troops to the State capital and seized the legislature by force in order to prevent them from voting. Federal provost marshals stood guard at the polls and arrested Democrats and anyone else who believed in secession. A special furlough was granted to Maryland troops so they could go home and vote against secession. Judges who tried to inquire into the phony elections were arrested and thrown into military prisons. There is your great “emancipator,” folks.

And before the South seceded, several Northern states had also threatened secession. Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island had threatened secession as far back as James Madison’s administration. In addition, the states of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware were threatening secession during the first half of the nineteenth century--long before the Southern states even considered such a thing.

People say constantly that Lincoln “saved” the Union. Lincoln didn’t save the Union; he subjugated the Union. There is a huge difference. A union that is not voluntary is not a union. Does a man have a right to force a woman to marry him or to force a woman to stay married to him? In the eyes of God, a union of husband and wife is far superior to a union of states. If God recognizes the right of husbands and wives to separate (and He does), to try and suggest that states do not have the right to lawfully (under Natural and divine right) separate is the most preposterous proposition imaginable.

People say that Lincoln freed the slaves. Lincoln did NOT free a single slave. But what he did do was enslave free men. His so-called Emancipation Proclamation had NO AUTHORITY in the Southern states, as they had separated into another country. Imagine a President today signing a proclamation to free folks in, say, China or Saudi Arabia. He would be laughed out of Washington. Lincoln had no authority over the Confederate States of America, and he knew it.

Do you not find it interesting that Lincoln’s proclamation did NOT free a single slave in the United States, the country in which he DID have authority? That’s right. The Emancipation Proclamation deliberately ignored slavery in the North. Do you not realize that when Lincoln signed his proclamation, there were over 300,000 slaveholders who were fighting in the Union army? Check it out.

One of those Northern slaveholders was General (and later U.S. President) Ulysses S. Grant. In fact, he maintained possession of his slaves even after the War Between the States concluded. Recall that his counterpart, Confederate General Robert E. Lee, freed his slaves BEFORE hostilities between North and South ever broke out. When asked why he refused to free his slaves, Grant said, “Good help is hard to find these days.”

The institution of slavery did not end until the 13th Amendment was ratified on December 6, 1865.

Speaking of the 13th Amendment, did you know that Lincoln authored his own 13th Amendment? It is the only amendment to the Constitution ever proposed by a sitting U.S. President. Here is Lincoln’s proposed amendment: “No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give Congress the power to abolish or interfere within any state with the domestic institutions thereof, including that a person's held to labor or service by laws of said State.”

You read it right. Lincoln proposed an amendment to the U.S. Constitution PRESERVING the institution of slavery. This proposed amendment was written in March of 1861, a month BEFORE the shots were fired at Fort Sumter, South Carolina.

The State of South Carolina was particularly incensed at the tariffs enacted in 1828 and 1832. The Tariff of 1828 was disdainfully called, “The Tariff of Abominations” by the State of South Carolina. Accordingly, the South Carolina legislature declared that the tariffs of 1828 and 1832 were “unauthorized by the Constitution of the United States.”

Think, folks: why would the Southern states secede from the Union over slavery when President Abraham Lincoln had offered an amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing the PRESERVATION of slavery? That makes no sense. If the issue was predominantly slavery, all the South needed to do was to go along with Lincoln, and his proposed 13th Amendment would have permanently preserved slavery among the Southern (and Northern) states. Does that sound like a body of people who were willing to lose hundreds of thousands of men on the battlefield over saving slavery? What nonsense!

The problem was Lincoln wanted the Southern states to pay the Union a 40% tariff on their exports. The South considered this outrageous and refused to pay. By the time hostilities broke out in 1861, the South was paying up to, and perhaps exceeding, 70% of the nation’s taxes. Before the war, the South was very prosperous and productive. And Washington, D.C., kept raising the taxes and tariffs on them. You know, the way Washington, D.C., keeps raising the taxes on prosperous American citizens today.

This is much the same story of the way the colonies refused to pay the demanded tariffs of the British Crown--albeit the tariffs of the Crown were MUCH lower than those demanded by Lincoln. Lincoln’s proposed 13th Amendment was an attempt to entice the South into paying the tariffs by being willing to permanently ensconce the institution of slavery into the Constitution. AND THE SOUTH SAID NO!

In addition, the Congressional Record of the United States forever obliterates the notion that the North fought the War Between the States over slavery. Read it for yourself. This resolution was passed unanimously in the U.S. Congress on July 23, 1861, “The War is waged by the government of the United States not in the spirit of conquest or subjugation, nor for the purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or institutions of the states, but to defend and protect the Union.”

What could be clearer? The U.S. Congress declared that the war against the South was NOT an attempt to overthrow or interfere with the “institutions” of the states, but to keep the Union intact (by force). The “institutions” implied most certainly included the institution of slavery.

Hear it loudly and clearly: Lincoln’s war against the South had NOTHING to do with ending slavery--so said the U.S. Congress by unanimous resolution in 1861.

Abraham Lincoln, himself, said it was NEVER his intention to end the institution of slavery. In a letter to Alexander Stevens who later became the Vice President of the Confederacy, Lincoln wrote this, “Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would directly, or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington.”

Again, what could be clearer? Lincoln, himself, said the Southern states had nothing to fear from him in regard to abolishing slavery.

Hear Lincoln again: “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it.” He also said, “I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so and I have no inclination to do so.”

The idea that the Confederate flag (actually there were five of them) stood for racism, bigotry, hatred, and slavery is just so much hogwash. In fact, if one truly wants to discover who the racist was in 1861, just read the words of Mr. Lincoln.

On August 14, 1862, Abraham Lincoln invited a group of black people to the White House. In his address to them, he told them of his plans to colonize them all back to Africa. Listen to what he told these folks: “Why should the people of your race be colonized and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss; but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think. Your race suffers very greatly, many of them, by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason, at least, why we should be separated. You here are freemen, I suppose? Perhaps you have been long free, or all your lives. Your race is suffering, in my judgment, the greatest wrong inflicted on any people. But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of our race.”

Did you hear what Lincoln said? He said that black people would NEVER be equal with white people--even if they all obtained their freedom from slavery. If that isn’t a racist statement, I’ve never heard one.

Lincoln’s statement above is not isolated. In Charleston, Illinois, in 1858, Lincoln said in a speech, “I am not, nor have ever been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on social or political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white.”

Ladies and gentlemen, in his own words, Abraham Lincoln declared himself to be a white supremacist. Why don’t our history books and news media tell the American people the truth about Lincoln and about the War Between the States?

It’s simple: if people would study the meanings and history of the flag, symbols, and statues of the Confederacy and Confederate leaders, they might begin to awaken to the tyrannical policies of Washington, D.C., that precluded Southern independence--policies that have only escalated since the defeat of the Confederacy--and they might have a notion to again resist.

By the time Lincoln penned his Emancipation Proclamation, the war had been going on for two years without resolution. In fact, the North was losing the war. Even though the South was outmanned and out-equipped, the genius of the Southern generals and fighting acumen of the Southern men had put the northern armies on their heels. Many people in the North never saw the legitimacy of Lincoln’s war in the first place, and many of them actively campaigned against it. These people were affectionately called “Copperheads” by people in the South.

I urge you to watch Ron Maxwell’s accurate depiction of those people in the North who favored the Southern cause as depicted in his motion picture, “Copperhead.” For that matter, I consider his movie, “Gods And Generals” to be the greatest “Civil War” movie ever made. It is the most accurate and fairest depiction of Confederate General Thomas Jonathan “Stonewall” Jackson ever produced. In my opinion, actor Stephen Lang should have received an Oscar for his performance as General Jackson. But, can you imagine?

That’s another thing: the war fought from 1861 to 1865 was NOT a “civil war.” Civil war suggests two sides fighting for control of the same capital and country. The South didn’t want to take over Washington, D.C., no more than their forebears wanted to take over London. They wanted to separate from Washington, D.C., just as America’s Founding Fathers wanted to separate from Great Britain. The proper names for that war are either, “The War Between the States” or, “The War of Southern Independence,” or, more fittingly, “The War of Northern Aggression.”

Had the South wanted to take over Washington, D.C., they could have done so with the very first battle of the “Civil War.” When Lincoln ordered federal troops to invade Virginia in the First Battle of Manassas (called the “First Battle of Bull Run” by the North), Confederate troops sent the Yankees running for their lives all the way back to Washington. Had the Confederates pursued them, they could have easily taken the city of Washington, D.C., seized Abraham Lincoln, and perhaps ended the war before it really began. But General Beauregard and the others had no intention of fighting an aggressive war against the North. They merely wanted to defend the South against the aggression of the North.

In order to rally people in the North, Lincoln needed a moral crusade. That’s what his Emancipation Proclamation was all about. This explains why his proclamation was not penned until 1863, after two years of fruitless fighting. He was counting on people in the North to stop resisting his war against the South if they thought it was some kind of “holy” war. Plus, Lincoln was hoping that his proclamation would incite blacks in the South to insurrect against Southern whites. If thousands of blacks would begin to wage war against their white neighbors, the fighting men of the Southern armies would have to leave the battlefields and go home to defend their families. THIS NEVER HAPPENED.

Not only did blacks not riot against the whites of the South, many black men volunteered to fight alongside their white friends and neighbors in the Confederate army. Unlike the blacks in the North, who were conscripted by Lincoln and forced to fight in segregated units, thousands of blacks in the South fought of their own free will in a fully-integrated Southern army. I bet your history book never told you about that.

If one wants to ban a racist flag, one would have to ban the British flag. Ships bearing the Union Jack shipped over 5 million African slaves to countries all over the world, including the British colonies in North America. Other slave ships flew the Dutch flag and the Portuguese flag and the Spanish flag, and, yes, the U.S. flag. But not one single slave ship flew the Confederate flag. NOT ONE!

By the time Lincoln launched his war against the Southern states, slavery was already a dying institution. The entire country, including the South, recognized the moral evil of slavery and wanted it to end. Only a small fraction of Southerners even owned slaves. The slave trade had ended in 1808, per the U.S. Constitution, and the practice of slavery was quickly dying, too. In another few years, with the advent of agricultural machinery, slavery would have ended peacefully--just like it had in England. It didn’t take a national war and the deaths of over a half million men to end slavery in Great Britain. America’s so-called “Civil War” was absolutely unnecessary. The greed of Lincoln’s radical Republicans in the North, combined with the cold, calloused heart of Lincoln himself is responsible for the tragedy of the “Civil War.”

And look at what is happening now: in one instant--after one deranged young man killed nine black people and who ostensibly photo-shopped a picture of himself with a Confederate flag--the entire political and media establishments in the country go on an all-out crusade to remove all semblances of the Confederacy. The speed in which all of this has happened suggests that this was a planned, orchestrated event by the Powers That Be (PTB). And is it a mere coincidence that this took place at the exact same time that the U.S. Supreme Court decided to legalize same-sex marriage? I think not.

The Confederate Battle Flag flies the Saint Andrews cross. Of course, Andrew was the first disciple of Jesus Christ, brother of Simon Peter, and Christian martyr who was crucified on an X-shaped cross at around the age of 90. Andrew is the patron saint of both Russia and Scotland.

In the 1800s, up to 75% of people in the South were either Scotch or Scotch-Irish. The Confederate Battle Flag is predicated on the national flag of Scotland. It is a symbol of the Christian faith and heritage of the Celtic race.

Pastor John Weaver rightly observed, “Even the Confederate States motto, ‘Deovendickia,’ (The Lord is our Vindicator), illustrates the sovereignty and the righteousness of God. The Saint Andrews cross is also known as the Greek letter CHIA (KEE) and has historically been used to represent Jesus Christ. Why do you think people write Merry X-mas, just to give you an illustration? The ‘X’ is the Greek letter CHIA and it has been historically used for Christ. Moreover, its importance was understood by educated and uneducated people alike. When an uneducated man, one that could not write, needed to sign his name please tell me what letter he made? An ‘X,’ why? Because he was saying I am taking an oath under God. I am recognizing the sovereignty of God, the providence of God and I am pledging my faith. May I tell you the Confederate Flag is indeed a Christian flag because it has the cross of Saint Andrew, who was a Christian martyr, and the letter ‘X’ has always been used to represent Christ, and to attack the flag is to deny the sovereignty, the majesty, and the might of the Lord Jesus Christ and his divine role in our history, culture, and life.”

Many of the facts that I reference in this column were included in a message delivered several years ago by Pastor John Weaver. I want to thank John for preaching such a powerful and needed message. Read or watch Pastor Weaver’s sermon “The Truth About The Confederate Battle Flag” here:

The Truth About The Confederate Battle Flag

Combine the current attacks against Biblical and traditional marriage, the attacks against all things Confederate, the attacks against all things Christian, and the attacks against all things constitutional and what we are witnessing is a heightened example of why the Confederate Battle Flag was created to begin with. Virtually every act of federal usurpation of liberty that we are witnessing today, and have been witnessing for much of the twentieth century, is the result of Lincoln’s war against the South. Truly, we are living in Lincoln’s America, not Washington and Jefferson’s America. Washington and Jefferson’s America died at Appomattox Court House in 1865.

Instead of lowering the Confederate flag, we should be raising it.

© Chuck Baldwin


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: civilwar; confederate; dixie; lostcause; race; slavery
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To: rockrr
There you go again - “arguing” exactly like a leftist.

I figured you'd understand it better if I spoke your language.

61 posted on 07/11/2015 12:17:16 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis

However please keep in mind that 70-80% of southern soldiers were not slave owners. The Northern hero Grant owned slaves while Lee did not.

The fact that 70 – 80% of Southern soldiers were not slave holders in immaterial. Individuals did not secede from the Union, the States did. The states were very (crystal) clear that their reason for seceding was slavery. You don’t have to believe me – just read the Articles of Secession that the states wrote to justify their secession> Individual soldiers had many reasons for fighting, but the reason there was a Confederate Army to join was because they seceded to protect slavery.

As far as the statement that Grant owned slaves, if you look at the data, from 1854 to 1859 Grant lived on, and managed, his father-in-law’s farm at White Haven, Missouri. While the majority of slaves on the farm were owned by his father-in-law, Grant did own one slave, William Jones, that he freed in 1859. As far as whether Lee owned slaves, the data is a little less clear. As the executor, of his father-in-laws will, Lee had control over 63 slaves, who worked on his plantation. As a condition of the will, he was required to manumit them within 5 years, which he did. Note that he could have manumitted them earlier than that, but he chose to keep them as long as possible and personally benefit from their labor


62 posted on 07/11/2015 12:17:24 PM PDT by Team Cuda
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To: Team Cuda
. The states were very (crystal) clear that their reason for seceding was slavery.

And the Union was very (crystal) clear that it would accept slavery, but not Independence.

Direct some hatred at the Union. It didn't fight to end slavery, it fought to end freedom.

It didn't start talking about ending slavery until two years after the war had been going on. Even then, "Ending Slavery" was first a military tactic, then a political tactic, and finally a punishment for having put up such a fight.

Five Union states were still practicing slavery throughout the civil war, and were in fact exempt from the emancipation proclamation. If the Union wanted to fight to end slavery, they could have started with their own five slave states. The supply lines would have been a lot shorter.

Stop buying into the propaganda the victors spread to justify their carnage. It isn't true.

63 posted on 07/11/2015 12:26:37 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
So You don't believe the part regarding Lincoln's actions in reference to Maryland? Because history says it is so.

OK, so can you please you point me to a source that confirms that Lincoln arrested the entire Maryland legislature in September 1861 and which details the statewide referendum on secession that Baldwin talks about? Thanks in advance.

Do you disagree with the part regarding the "Emancipation" Proclamation? Because if you go and read the actual document you will find that it specifically leaves out the slaves in Union states, the only ones Lincoln could have really freed.

Constitutionally Lincoln could not. Lincoln could free the slaves in the South because the Confiscation Acts, passed by Congress and upheld by the Supreme Court, allowed the government to seize private property without compensation if that property was being used to support the rebellion. So he issued the Emancipation Proclamation. He could not legally free the slaves in the North because slavery was not unconstitutional. It took the 13th Amendment to end slavery. I'm surprised that you were unaware of all that.

Do you disagree with the facts regarding the tariff issues of the time? If so you should research the issue more and read what people of the time had to say on it..."

Yes, let's see what people of the time had to say on it.

"Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association." -- Texas Declaration of Causes for Secession

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove." -- Mississippi Declaration of the Causes of Secession

"The South had always been solid for slavery and when the quarrel about it resulted in a conflict of arms, those who had approved the policy of disunion took the pro-slavery side. It was perfectly logical to fight for slavery, if it was right to own slaves." -- John Singleton Mosby

"What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery." -- Speech of Henry Benning to the Virginia Convention

The only issue of contention remaining was the 40% Federal sales tax on Southerners, which required a compulsory Union to collect.

Except that there was no 40% tax on Southerners. Not in 1860. Not ever.

After the South had been forced back into the (now) compulsory Union under the 40% tax rate, Federal tax revenues mushroomed 300% to $170 million per year. Before the war, while the South was in the Union under the 20% tax rate, revenues had been $50 million per year. Source: U.S. Census Bureau Balance of Payments And Foreign Trade: 1821-1945 (Page 248)

Even if correct, you're saying this was a reason for the South leaving in 1860?

64 posted on 07/11/2015 12:34:42 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Tzfat
Non slave owners were most of the soldiers who fought for the CSA. Along with tens of thousands of black men, in completely integrated units - unlike the Federal units that did not permit black men to fight with them.

Do you honestly believe that?

You are welcome to your history (sic). We will keep ours.

To paraphrase Daniel Patrick Moynihan, you are entitled to your own history, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

65 posted on 07/11/2015 12:37:27 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Even if correct, you're saying this was a reason for the South leaving in 1860?

The South's reasons for leaving is immaterial to the North's refusal to allow it for any reason.

The Salient question is this; Do people have a right to leave?

Our founding document, the Declaration of Independence, says "yes."

66 posted on 07/11/2015 12:40:43 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
When you rebut, you ought to post links to your source. I don't know how many Union Slave holders there were, but I know there were five Union Slave states where slaves were held.

I'll be glad to. The University of Virginia census browser for 1860. Here is the Link. Do the math yourself.

From a moral perspective, do you really think the difference between 80,000 and 300,000 is significant?

From a factual perspective don't you think there is quite a difference between 80,000, which is approximately the total number of slave owners in all the Union states, and 300,000 which Baldwin claims is the total number of slave owners in Union ranks? Or do facts mean absolutely nothing to you?

67 posted on 07/11/2015 12:42:10 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: x
If you want to know Exactly why the South broke with the Union, read each State's session documents. It's in their own words and they had not reason to express anything other than their True feelings on the subject.
68 posted on 07/11/2015 12:43:27 PM PDT by RossB
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To: DiogenesLamp
The South's reasons for leaving is immaterial to the North's refusal to allow it for any reason.

The South's reason for leaving is the heart of the discussion. The South's reason for starting the war were, as you yourself have said, were pretty stupid.

69 posted on 07/11/2015 12:44:03 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: golux

bttt


70 posted on 07/11/2015 12:45:52 PM PDT by Pelham (Deo Vindice)
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To: Vendome

In all, thirteen states had Articles of Secession (though only eleven ever actually ratified them, and they became the eleven states of the Confederate States of America). In those eleven Articles of Secession, only four specifically mentioned slavery as a cause (note: just one of many causes): South Carolina; Mississippi; Texas; and Georgia. Virginia’s only mention of it was to effect it expressed solidarity with the slave states that had seceded. The day after Virginia ratified its Articles of Secession (May 23, 1861), Union troops marched into Northern Virginia (May 24, 1861).

So, of thirteen Articles of Secession; only four expressly mentioned slavery as a reason. But they ALL cited self-determination as a reason.

I find it amusing that so many Lincoln apologists cite Clause 5, Article III, Sec. 3 of the U.S. Constitution to support their conclusion that the seceded states committed treason simply by seceding. However, a close reading of that authority does not support such a conclusion. It states, rather, that treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them.

Also, if we accept Lincoln’s and his apologists’ argument that the seceded states were not, in fact, legally divorced from the United States, but were still part of the United States, then Lincoln was a war criminal for invading Virginia when Virginia had never made any martial acts against ANY state or union of states.

Now, don’t get me wrong: I wish there had never been any secession (read my profile page). But I also know that the victors generally get to write the histories, with their own bias, and the North certainly did that.


71 posted on 07/11/2015 12:49:44 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: golux
What we see materializing before our very eyes is tyranny: tyranny over the freedom of expression, tyranny over the freedom of association, tyranny over the freedom of speech, and tyranny over the freedom of conscience.

So we have public sentiment, pretty much the entire GOP political structure and multiple Southern governors saying stop flying the flag.

An intellectually honest person would say the time has come to let it go. Claiming that it's tyranny does an injustice to those who have actually suffered under the same.

Exactly who is imposing the tyranny here?

72 posted on 07/11/2015 12:51:01 PM PDT by semimojo
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To: Tau Food

“Maybe if we had hung all the leaders, the history would be more clear and we wouldn’t have all this nonsense about a flag.”

Lenin would approve.


73 posted on 07/11/2015 12:51:44 PM PDT by Pelham (Deo Vindice)
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To: DoodleDawg
From a factual perspective don't you think there is quite a difference between 80,000, which is approximately the total number of slave owners in all the Union states, and 300,000 which Baldwin claims is the total number of slave owners in Union ranks?

Yes, that's quite a discrepancy. I wonder where he got his number? Still, to make the history come out the way everyone claims, that number should still be zero.

74 posted on 07/11/2015 12:54:45 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Tzfat

“I never had to explain to my sons why the South fought. The’ve met enough Yankees to know why we fought.”

Well said.


75 posted on 07/11/2015 12:56:15 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: Tzfat

I hear you. They may remove the flag from Dixie, but they will never remove Dixie from our hearts.


76 posted on 07/11/2015 12:58:21 PM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: golux

Is the GOP still the party of Lincoln?


77 posted on 07/11/2015 12:58:43 PM PDT by llabradoodlle
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To: DiogenesLamp

Resolved: That the Constitution confers upon Congress sovereign powers over the Territories of the United States for their government; and that in the exercise of this power, it is both the right and the imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the Territories those twin relics of barbarism — Polygamy, and Slavery.

Republican platform of 1856.

http://www.ushistory.org/gop/convention_1856republicanplatform.htm

The Republican party was the party of abolition...period.


78 posted on 07/11/2015 12:58:44 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '16)
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To: DoodleDawg
The South's reason for leaving is the heart of the discussion.

No, the South's reason for leaving is simply what the ex post facto rationalizers want to talk about. They want to get the History out of sequence because it makes what they did look better.

The South's reasons for leaving are immaterial to the larger point. Did they have a right to leave?

79 posted on 07/11/2015 12:59:30 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
They were his father-in-law's slaves.

Which were left to his daughter in his will. Yet you claim Lee owned none.

However the family owned four others under his wife's name, although Grant himself was responsible for supervising them.

For the sake of this argument let's assume that is true. What you are saying is that Lee's wife inherits close to 200 slaves but Lee doesn't own them. Grant's wife is given several slaves by her father and all of a sudden they belong to Grant?

In reality, Grant's wife had the use of four slaves. Title to the slaves do not appear to have been passed on to Julia Grant, much less her husband. The Dent family slaves were, according to Julia Dent Grant's autobiography, freed shortly after the Emancipation Proclamation. There is reason to believe that this was a bit of an exaggeration on Julia Grant's part. Evidence indicates that the Dent family slaves just ran off over time after the Emancipation Proclamation, and that includes the slaves that Julia Grant had use of. In any case there are no accounts of any slaves accompanying Mrs. Grant on her visits to her husband or on any of her other travels after early 1863.

80 posted on 07/11/2015 1:00:26 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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