The legal dilemma posed by pistol-gripped shotguns

Of Arms and the Law ^ | 14 April, 2015 | David Hardy

[marktwain]

Interesting issue ... and here I'm referring to shotguns which were originally made with a rear pistol grip in place of a buttstock.

Under the Gun Control Act, the issue seems simple: they are pistols. Very big pistols, but pistols. Thus they have been treated, and sold in large numbers over quite a few years.

[marktwain]

Actually, I do not recall a single criminal use of artillery by a non-governmental owner.

[marktwain]

This is an excerpt. I missed the box. I have notified the moderator.

[Lazamataz]

I am so screwed.

[MileHi]

Yeah, but are you feelin’ fine?

[TexasGator]

“Under the Gun Control Act, the issue seems simple: they are pistols. “

Not that simple. A pistol is defined as ‘being designed to be fired with one hand.

[ctdonath2]

An under-considered point: if acquiring high-end armaments requires great effort and cost, few are likely to throw away all that (and the lifestyle required to support it!) just for some stupid criminal act. An M777 (modern “small” artillery) costs around $700,000 ... any private citizen who buys one is living a multi-million dollar lifestyle, and odds are not going to do something that will trade all that in for a long-term stay at Graybar Hotel.

[ctdonath2]

“designed to be fired with one hand”

...which is basically quantified as no stock AND barrel under 18” or overall length under 26”. As such, I had a 14” PGO Mossberg registered in NY as a pistol (startled the County Clerk, calmed with “it’s a collector’s item”).

[Elderberry]

Under the NFA, “The term “destructive device” means .. any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes...” 26 U.S.C.§5845

Now does that mean that the .69 caliber rifles used in the civil war are Destructive Devices?

And the currently popular 58 caliber black powder guns?

And how about the British 600 and 700 Nitro Express rifles?

[Crazieman]

What legal dilemma? The second amendment is quite clear.

[ozzymandus]

I do not understand this thread.

[TigersEye]

Interesting issue ... and here I'm referring to shotguns which were originally made with a rear pistol grip in place of a buttstock.

So what does that make a Mossberg that originally had a long barrel that was cut off and shoulder stock replaced by a pistol grip?

(out of curiosity of course, my boat is at the dock ready to go)

[PapaBear3625]

If it was originally made as a pistol, then it's a pistol.

If it was originally made as a longarm, and you convert it to a pistol, then you have a problem.

[TigersEye]

It has been legal all these years and suddenly I now have a problem?

[Elderberry]

You better take that boat ride:

As I read this. It appears to me.
You possess the evil DD

26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions

For the purpose of this chapter—
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;

[Charles Martel]

Not that simple. A pistol is defined as ‘being designed to be fired with one hand.

Well, they are manufactured with no buttstocks and pistol-length barrels, so the "one hand" capability seems to be dependant on the shooter. IIRC, there may be a requirement that the barrel be rifled in order to define it as a pistol.

[TigersEye]

I am well aware of those definitions. The barrel is 18 3/8” (depending on where you measure from) and the overall length is 27 1/8”. But it has a pistol grip which is what all of these articles have been blabbering about.

[PapaBear3625]

Not that simple. A pistol is defined as ‘being designed to be fired with one hand.

A Taurus Judge fires a .410 shotgun shell.

Taurus was set up to produce the 28-gauge Raging Judge, but ran into BATF hassles over importation.

[yarddog]

I fired one a couple of times and thought it was basically worthless. I have discovered since then that some people actually like them.

On the other hand, I have a Winchester Defender with both a pistol grip and butt stock. I have arthritis and find it much easier to use than the standard stock.

[PapaBear3625]

My free legal advice is worth what you paid for it. Check the laws yourself, or ask a lawyer who knows these things.

[DariusBane]

You are correct. Sporting standard is for the intellectually bankrupt.