Posted on 12/26/2013 10:12:33 AM PST by Fawn
“Treading water in rough seas for a long time? lol
The Coast Guard guy who rescued them said the weather wasn’t bad and the photos somebody who just happened to be flying overhead show the plane sinking in the water fully intact in conditions that are not so terrible.”
The pilot was there the whole time and said the conditions were bad. So what, you think he was just mistaken, and someone else who wasn’t in the water with him through the ordeal, or someone who looks at an aerial photo, is a more reliable source?
“She was not treading water; she was in a yellow inflatable life vest designed to hold the head above water.”
Just wearing a life vest doesn’t mean one can bob around in the ocean without treading water and be fine, especially not in rough conditions. About a quarter of the people that drown every year are, in fact, found wearing life vests.
“And depending on which of the many reports you believe, about a half-hour after the crash she had still had time after dying to drift 200 yards from the guy she had been holding hands with. So she died after what, maybe 10 minutes of being in 78-degree water in a life vest?”
The pilot said that the seat cushions drifted out of sight almost immediately after he tossed them out of the plane, because the conditions were that bad. So, drifting 200 yards after getting separated doesn’t seem like it would have taken twenty minutes. If she was drifting that slowly, then the others wouldn’t have had such a problem getting a hold of her again. Also, 78 degree water is still cold enough to get hypothermia. The condition is known as “warm water hypothermia”, and it is a hazard even in tropical waters.
“And what kind of condition would that have caused which wouldn’t be determined as the cause of death after an autopsy examination?”
I think it’s pretty silly to speculate on that while the medical examiners are still investigating. They are in a much better position than you or I to know what they have and haven’t checked out yet. I might as well ask you, if you think she was killed, what kind of murder wouldn’t be determined as the cause of death after an autopsy?
“First, by describing Fuddy as falling prey to a fatality of a non-fatal accident, I was making an intentional word play to underscore what I consider to be rather peculiar about the circumstances of Ms. Fuddy’s death.”
Okay, fair enough. What’s peculiar though? That she survived the crash but died in the ocean? I’d call that bad luck, but not very curious.
“I have not yet reached a final conclusion that Fuddy’s death involved anything more than an accident. To me, though it falls within the realm of “somewhat mysterious.” Those are the words I used in my post, not “shocking mystery, or breathtaking conspiracy,” etc. To which you responded “What’s so mysterious . . .”. Gee whiz, Mister. Sorry. Would it be okay if I described the matter as “a teensy bit eyebrow-raising”? Or would you swoop in to take exception with those words as well?”
Well, what is mysterious about it? Or peculiar, curious, or eyebrow-raising, or whatever you want to call it?
“In the same respect, isn’t the phrase “was killed” regularly used without any reference to conscious human agency as the cause?”
Yes, sure, but not “regularly” in the case of people who say “Fuddy was killed”. In that case, I would say it’s a quite rare phraseology.
Fuddy's plane went down off Molokai. The pilot ditched, they all got out and were in the water with life jackets on. Fuddy was the only one who died (apparently after exiting the aircraft and getting her life jacket on). All others are okay, and they were rescued promptly, in daylight.
Fuddy was the HI official who claimed to have seen the original documents and who signed off on the forgery, iirc.
Yes, it does sound like the police lt was trying to muddy the waters. The coroner is responsible to find the cause of death.
Thank you.
“The rescue team members said even though the weather wasn’t rough, what made the rescue difficult was making sure there wasn’t a crash between two aircraft from different agencies. There were at least six in the air at a time trying to recover the survivors.”
She said in the video that the one the White House released is not the one she forged. She said hers was off by a day and that mistakes were often met by having the person who made the mistake disappear. How she survived the error is still not told.
So can’t dismiss yet.
She also talks like someone that knows how to be around organized crime, which made me wonder in post #46 why she was coming out now. She’s making a website, so no monetary gain there. A website can be continued if she dies or disappears and it can’t be shutdown easily. Also people can download its content.
She sounds credible.
Exactly. A few easily debunked nutcases with the right story line but the wrong particulars can do more damage to ferreting out the truth than all the dead bodies in obscure parks.
The other tactic is to perform acts so outrageous they sound like conspiracy theories on crack.
The outrageousness of the act becomes its own defense.
The Govt' (BATFE) ran guns to Mexican drug cartels so they could be traced from crime scenes back to the US, so they could use it as an excuse to push for more gun control.
The Government made huge loans with taxpayer money to renewable energy companies on the brink of bankruptcy, which were funneled back through in the form of campaign contributions before the company went belly up anyway.
Just a pair of examples which would challenge the average Low Information Voter's normalcy bias and make them look at you like you were the kook.
That same pilot also said he was very surprised to find that Fuddy had died because she seemed fine.
And BTW, that same pilot also has never been listed as a pilot for Makani Kai, even though their pilot list was updated twice THIS YEAR, in June and on Dec 2 (just 9 days before this flight) - even though reports have said he flew for Makani Kai for 1-2 years (depending on the source).
I’m not saying there wasn’t wind that would blow cushions around. If you think the wind could blow a mostly-submerged Loretta Fuddy around as quickly as it would blow a seat cushion, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
I posted a link on a different thread, answering the question of what is the ideal temperature for a swimming pool. The most comfortable range for non-competition swimming is 78-82 degrees. Someone else posted an article about hypothermia which showed that at 78 degrees a person could become fatigued or non-responsive because of hypothermia after 3-12 hours. Shortly after that the news stories tried to make it sound like it was a couple hours before the rescue crews got there - even though there was a news report about the landing - including that one had died - within about an hour of it happening.
See, the stories shifted about as much as the water did - and always to fit whatever narrative was being pushed regarding Fuddy’s death. First it was that she was still in the fuselage. Then it was that she was out of the fuselage but probably had a heart attack. Then it was that she probably had hypothermia... And whenever the theory shifted here on FR, the news reports shifted or contradicted the earlier reports to try to fit the theory. Maybe it was the other way around; maybe the news stories shifted first and then the theories here shifted to fit. But the reports were contradictory.
The kind of murder that wouldn’t show up in an autopsy examination is a poisoning. And some poisonings don’t even show up in the tox results. Hypothermia and complications thereof, heart failure, etc would show up in an autopsy examination.
I read the OP and some posts and I still don’t know “who”, must not be important.
What does Fuddy’s death have to do with whether nancy Owens’ information is accurate?
Sure is
Its long!
I don’t remember which parcel.
http://www.scribd.com/BarackObama/documents (taxes from 2—3-2008 plus 2011 perhaps more)
House purchased 2005, so for 2006 taxes, $16,181 Real Estate taxes. Records showed $22,162 taxes for the house.
I recommend if any extra time, having a quick lookover of their taxes for the available years.
She’s his sister Einstein!
Pure speculation but Owens says in her video that she made an error in 1985 on the long form I believe in the date, have to watch it again.
I think she says she was one day off.
Fuddy may have seen the error.
On the other hand there may be no connection.
In any event, Owens’ account seems to connect the dots better than most other explanations.
There are even more years than I thought. 2000, 2001.
It was my pleasure. I’m glad that you found the news report helpful.
You really live in that wind tunnel?
Shills are drawn to these threads like iron filings to a magnet.
Out of sight doesn’t take much lateral separation when your head is poking out of the water and there is even a modest two foot swell. The view from eight to twelve inches above the water is obscured rapidly, and anything floating at a similar level will be hidden over the next wave. Keep in mind that six feet of swell is not the same as six feet of surf. Wave characteristics in deeper water are different from those in shallow water.
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