Biker mob assaulting NYC Internet executive Alexian Lienn. Photo via CarScoops.com
Posted on 10/05/2013 5:53:28 AM PDT by marktwain
This image of a biker gang pummeling Internet executive Alexian Lienn as his wife helplessly looks on is terrifying.
Biker mob assaulting NYC Internet executive Alexian Lienn. Photo via CarScoops.com
Lienn and his wife were enjoying a day out celebrating their wedding anniversary with their baby daughter when a so-called “pop-up gang” of bikers surrounded them as they drove on Manhattan’s West Side Highway. One biker, later identified as Chistopher Cruz, swerved in front of Lienn’s Range Rover and “brake-checked” the vehicle by slamming on his brakes, forcing the vehicle to stop. 2,000 lb SUVs being much harder to stop than a sport bike weight just hundreds of pounds, the SUV bumped Cruz and came to halt. Other bikers quickly swarmed the SUV, slashing it’s tires and trying to get to the terrified family trapped inside.
We covered the details of what happened next in an earlier article that features a video of the ensuing chase, but that video just coincidentally cuts off before the biker mob pulls a now-trapped Mr. Lienn from his vehicle and beats and stomps him on the pavement as his wife helplessly looks on, their two-year-old daughter in the back seat. Mr. Lienn could have easily been killed, and was completely at the mob’s mercy.
While this particular mob formed in New York City, they can occur anywhere, and the thuggish riders that participate come from far away. Edwin Mieses Jr, the biker left paralyzed as Lienn’s SUV ran over him trying to escape, came all the way for Lawrence, MA for the ride (and had a long arrest record of dozens of motor vehicle infractions).
Video of the attack—and revelations that the NYPD has a policy of ignoring these gangs—has given many people to consider what they would do if caught in a similar situation, and for Americans that live in states where they insist on exercising their freedom, that may involve preparations to use a firearm in self defense.
Long guns (rifles or shotguns) are impractical in vehicles, as are their derivative pistols (AK- and AR-based) because of size limitations.
Small pocket pistols and revolvers, while comfortable for everyday carry, are limited by small magazine/cylinder capacity.
Were I trapped in such a situation, pinned in by traffic and confronted by a hostile mob looking to breach the vehicle’s cabin with the obvious intent of causing my family harm, I’d want a service-sized semi-automatic pistol with a standard-capacity magazine of 15-20 rounds, with at least two spare magazines within close reach.
Frankly, this sort of situation calls for the “Zimmerman special.”
After Florida neighborhood watchman (and road hazard in his own right) George Zimmerman had his Kel-Tec PF9 pistol confiscated and he became the center of a political firestorm, he purchased a FN Five-seveN pistol. He did so at a time when the New Black Panthers put a bounty on his head, and there was the very real possibility that he would have been lynched by a mob if his location were revealed.
He needed a handgun that could carry a large number of rounds, so that he could engage multiple threats quickly and accurate.
We don’t know for sure who helped Zimmermann select the Five-seveN, (though I have a hunch it was probably his Federal Air Marshall friend, Mark Ostermann), but it was an inspired choice. The Five-seveN boasts a factory standard 20-round magazines, and the high-velocity, low-recoiling 5.7x28mm round that lets a shooter get back on target quickly and transition from one target to the next.
When he turned himself in to be charged for murder, Zimmerman turned over his Five-seveN, 3 20-round magazines, and 61 rounds of ammunition that had become part of his everyday carry gear. It was all released back to him after the trial (Zimmerman’s PF9 remains in the custody of a spiteful U.S Department of Justice). He is believed to be carrying this gun to this day.
The Five-seveN is a bit of an exotic, but the same role could just as easily be filled by a Glock 17, Springfield Armory XD, Beretta M9, or any other service-size pistol with a 15+ round magazine capacity with several spare magazines in reserve.
We live in a world where criminal mobs form in minutes via social media, and police would rather ignore them than confront them.
What would you chose to defend your family with in such a situation?
In a situation like this NEVER STOP. Even if you have to rock that car back and forth 3 or 4 feet from forward to reverse. Never let them get to a point where they can use your position against you.
If you notice, the moment the shot was fired, everyone in the mob backed off for a few precious seconds.
Most mobs will run away when shots are fired. Two things worked against those in the vehicle in the situation mentioned.
One, the shooter stopped shooting, showing weakness.
Two, it was likely an unusually motivated and cohesive mob.
I agree, getting away is the best policy. But shooting is likely to make an opening, as you mentioned. If more shots had been fired, there likely would have been more of an opening.
I’m not sure about these sport bikes but it used to be that 4-wheel vehicles would stop more quickly than 2-wheel vehicles.
If you’re both driving 90, you don’t have to worry about shooting. And, unless the helmet is Kevlar, I don’t think the carbon fiber is gonna stop a major sized round.
Cook off has always been a major problem with caseless ammo.
The scandium framed J frame, in particular, is just too easy to carry. Though it's five round capacity might be insufficient for a bike gang, it's perfect for 99.99% of the SD situations one might find oneself in. As fall and winter roll along, I'll probably switch back to the Glock 30 though which would be mostly adequate for a biker gang, especially if you have a spare mag or two on you.
A completely adequate solution would be one of the 5.56 mm AR15 pistols with a 30 round mag or, better yet, a beta C mag loaded up with some of the lightweight V-max or varmint grenade projectiles . It is a pistol, it is concealable, and it's more firepower than you would probably ever need.
Try to shoot the mouthy one first. He's the leader.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nug5FZgxuk
That Dillon Aero looks fabulously fun. if I ever have $50,000 to $75,000, and can afford 750 dollars a minute for rounds,...
Imho for what its worth, forget the gun.Just chest thumping and machismo on who has the bigger badder gun.
Bikers carry guns too, what if they carried Uzis?
The discussion then travel to wounded pride and an escalation?
This is like trying to shoot a swarm of hornets with a .22.
Bikes at speed cannot swerve around debris, traction is minimal.
Take out the machine, besides myself I would not want to kill an undercover cop, good or bad, they are people trying to do a job.
Evade, and if stopped then go offensive, because then you have more stationary targets.
Yep.....and likely qualifies as an AOW, or it’s a ‘pistol’ but I don’t think the drop-down grip qualifies it as a pistol.
If an AOW, that’s a $200 Tax stamp....
Anyway, it’s damned nice, a Remington Super Shorty? ...how many rounds...a pump?
I do not think I can hit something that size while driver across the body at that speed, I bet some will brazenly just chime in and say they can of course.
It also helps if you increase your speed and roll them out the sun roof too
I think you’d have better chance hitting a head from a car than a head from a motorcycle. But if you’re low speed, I’d always go for a head shot. That takes practice, I know, but with range time and practice, that’s not an impossible task for a few yards....
My bad....as of now, the AOW is $5 but they are going to raise it to equal what a MG or what a silencer costs (both going up to $500)
From the Daily Mail,
“28-year-old Christopher Cruz, of Passaic, N.J., with unlawful imprisonment and reckless driving while authorities continue to search for other cyclists.”
Basically, they surrounded the SUV (attempted kidnap) and the driver refused to cooperate, powered out and hit some on the way out.
If you watch the hundreds of outlaw motorcycle riders pursuing the fleeing family, it is terrifying.
As an old geezer who has been around a bit, I found the following posts to be unfulfilling. In NY, if you started shooting and got away, you would have thousands of dollars of lawyer bills until you died. I have great difficulty seeing how one would shoot a pump shotgun while driving. Now if you had someone riding shotgun..... (in an SUV).
What is needed is some really practical suggestions.
The mix I carried in the service works great for me. A Remington 870 riot shotgun, an AR15 (Carried an M16) and a 1911 .45. That covers pretty much every concievable scenario I’d need a self defense boom stick.
“What is needed is some really practical suggestions.”
The most practical would be to have the police enforce the law, and not allow gangs to take over the streets and terrrify the population.
It can be done. It just takes the will to do it.
It cannot be done when you make policy to allow outlaws to take over the streets “because somebody might get hurt”.
If your immediate goal is to “take out” a bike, yes. If you goal is to make them back off to a safe distance while you are calling 911 etc, then weaving without intentionally striking them will cause them to back off. If you are the one who makes the first contact and wind up killing a biker, you will be charged with homicide. If you merely begin the weaving tactic, you won’t need to make first contact, but you will cause them to back way off.
I think thats why the 1st biker looked in the window...to evaluate the driver before trying to shake him down....
At Least 5 of the bikers were cops....wow
In Detroit they like to walk down the middle of the street..when a car slows down behind them their buddies run up from the flanks,once the car is stopped they do what they want....these guys are playing the same sort of game...with bikes...wonder how many of those little street urchins that Ive seen are gonna be cops when they grow up?
oh well
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