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Tesla Fire is About Rushing, Subsidizing Immature Technology, Not Stock Price
NLPC ^ | October 4, 2013 | Paul Chesser

Posted on 10/04/2013 8:35:56 AM PDT by jazusamo

Tesla fire

A fire (screen capture from Jalopnik.com) that torched a Model S from the formerly Teflon Tesla Motors on Tuesday blackened its front end, lowered its stock price, and (further) revealed a corporate arrogance not seen since Fisker Karmas were alight.

But CEO Elon Musk saw to it that taxpayers werefully paid back their $465 million Department of Energy loan, so as watchdogs over the public purse we can forget all about it and just go on about our business – right?

Wrong. The incident near Seattle still should be of great concern because Tesla still heavily depends on tax breaks (like the consumer’s $7,500 federal credit) and the sale of emissions credits (mainly from California) to partially subsidize the costs of their electric cars. Moreover, the government has invested billions of dollars in the research and development of new battery technology, all in the name of energy efficiency in order to save the world from global warming. Those based onlithium have gone up in flames inplanes,plants and automobiles.

One of these days there will be a fatality, but until then manufacturers dismiss the incidents. The statement Tesla issued about the fire in Kent, Wash. was matter-of-fact and lacked any expression of concern for the vehicle’s owner.

“Yesterday, a Model S collided with a large metallic object in the middle of the road, causing significant damage to the vehicle,” the company response said. “The car’s alert system signaled a problem and instructed the driver to pull over safely, which he did. No one was injured, and the sole occupant had sufficient time to exit the vehicle safely and call the authorities. Subsequently, a fire caused by the substantial damage sustained during the collision was contained to the front of the vehicle thanks to the design and construction of the vehicle and battery pack. All indications are that the fire never entered the interior cabin of the car. It was extinguished on-site by the fire department.”

It almost sounds like Tesla wants an “attaboy” for the brilliance of its safety features and battery design, rather than express how grateful that the driver was not hurt. Whether there actually was a “large” chunk of metal that was struck still isn’t clear from the evidence, but if there was, it’s not a reason for Tesla to be absolved of responsibility. After all, debris is struck in roadways regularly around the country and it doesn’t cause episodes like this. What, for instance, if the Model S had actually collided with an object in the road and it rendered the driver unconscious? Then we’d be talking about a much different result.

Back when Fisker Automotive was still alive and stumbling , their public relations department handled mishaps in a similar fashion. In May 2012 a Fort Bend County, Texas fire marshal attributed a garage blaze to the homeowner’s Fisker Karma, which he had parked shortly before he started smelling burning rubber and discovered the fire. Nevertheless Fisker issued a statement that said, “As of now, multiple insurance investigators are involved, and we have not ruled out possible fraud or malicious intent. Based on initial observations and inspections, the Karma’s lithium ion battery pack was not being charged at the time and is still intact and does not appear to have been a contributing factor in this incident.” The owner was not pleased by the challenge to his integrity.

And after a California Karma fire in August last year, the company said, “We have more than 1,000 Karmas on the road with a cumulative 2 million miles on them. There are more than 185,000 highway vehicle fires in the US every year…No injuries were reported; the vehicle was parked; and the fire was extinguished safely by the emergency services.”

The arrogance isn’t limited to the automotive realm. In April this year Boeing, after a series of “thermal runaway” incidents on its lithium-ion battery-powered Dreamliner, officials announced they gave up trying when it couldn’t find the source of the problem. Instead the manufacturer said they came up with a solution that would both contain a potential fire and vent its heat outside the airplane if another fire happened.

“In some ways it almost doesn’t matter what the root cause was,” said Michael Sinnett, Boeing’s top engineer.

Undoubtedly there are a lot of very smart people who have worked very hard on developing these new technologies. But likewise there have been equally brilliant individuals warning these engineers and entrepreneurs that they are dealing with dangerous materials and chemistry, and that just because someone hasn’t been hurt yet, doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

Lewis Larsen of Chicago-based Lattice Energy LLC has consistently called attention to the problems with lithium ion technologies and their tendencies to thermally run away – or, in other words, burn uncontrollably. The practicality problem (other than their immense cost) with the batteries is that when they experience stress – for any number of reasons – it’s almost like unleashing hell.

“…A battery cell’s electrochemical reactions can suddenly start running at greatly elevated rates that create more process heat than normal thermal dissipative mechanisms can easily handle,” Larsen wrote, “which then starts raising the temperature of battery cell contents out beyond their ideal safe operating range…(eventually) a dangerous feedback loop is created…thermal runaways are thus born….”

For many – perhaps most – people that isn’t the kind of risk you want in your “mobile platform,” as Larsen put it. But rather than emphasize those challenges, most of the media coverage has emphasized what the incident has done to Tesla’s stock price, whichirrationally skyrocketed upward this year.

Part of the bombastic investor enthusiasm stemmed from other superlatives bestowed upon the Model S, such as the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s top score of five stars, which spurred Musk to make sure the media was told the car scored even higher on some safety aspects. And then in May Consumer Reports’ announced the Model S scored 99 out of 100 – almost perfect!

It was all too much too soon for the electric car with a minimal track record. The doubts and questions about lithium ion batteries used in vehicles and planes – and the massive taxpayer subsidization of them – are still valid.

Paul Chesser is an associate fellow for the National Legal and Policy Center and publishes CarolinaPlottHound.com , an aggregator of North Carolina news.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: batteries; efv; electricvehicles; energy; lithiumion; subsidies; taxcredits; tesla

1 posted on 10/04/2013 8:35:56 AM PDT by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo
So, we need to stick with mature technology? Such as the:

FORD PINTO

2 posted on 10/04/2013 8:45:33 AM PDT by Michael.SF. (0bama lied, Stevens died, now 0bama covers up the lies.)
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To: jazusamo

The software for Obamacare. It burns in a slightly different way.


3 posted on 10/04/2013 8:49:55 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: jazusamo

Of course no other vehicle currently on the road today is prone to catch fire after hitting debris in the road. (Sarcasm)

I have NEVER seen or heard of a vehicle hitting something like a piece of scrap metal laying in the road that punctured the radiator (antifreeze is flammable) and oil pan with the liquids contacting the hot exhaust system and igniting! THAT IS CRAZY TO THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED!

Hoplophobes!


4 posted on 10/04/2013 8:50:40 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: Michael.SF.

I see your point but the Pinto thing was a design flaw, the battery thing is the technology for the lithium ion battery and physics.


5 posted on 10/04/2013 8:53:17 AM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: noprogs
I'm not sure if you know what the term "hoplophobe" means.

Perhaps you meant "technophobe" or "Luddite."

6 posted on 10/04/2013 8:55:13 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: noprogs

How about the lithium ion batteries in the airliners mentioned in the article that Boeing made a “safe” box for in case of self ignition, really reassuring isn’t it?


7 posted on 10/04/2013 8:58:07 AM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: jazusamo
Tesla Fire is About Rushing, Subsidizing Immature Technology, Not Stock Price

Sure it's not George Bush's fault, or Ted Cruz?

In all seriousness, I did a lot of R&D work on Li Ion batteries in the late 90's. Even back then, when we did the destructive testing we notices the temperature would rise when there was a failure, like driving a nail through the battery. Personally I believe this is a scale problem, a cell phone battery isn't a big deal, but something the size of a car battery...

Bottom line, there is an enormous amount of power in a Li Ion battery and if you release it quickly, it will burn.

8 posted on 10/04/2013 9:01:58 AM PDT by MAexile (Bats left, votes right)
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To: MAexile

You’re exactly right.

Now the manufacturers of the all electric cars such as Tesla are using much larger battery systems to increase the range on the vehicles, increasing the problem.


9 posted on 10/04/2013 9:07:35 AM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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Please bump the Freepathon or click above and donate or become a monthly donor!

10 posted on 10/04/2013 9:13:22 AM PDT by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: jazusamo
Hopefully someone will "get" it:


11 posted on 10/04/2013 9:18:08 AM PDT by Arthurio
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To: jazusamo

I actually saw this Tesla as it was smoking (post flames). I was caught up in the backup but I was not the cars you see behind it in the picture. I drove by from the point of view of the photographer. There was a lot of smoke still when I drove by and it looked like the firefighter was pounding on the drivers door or window with his axe.

It was quite a sight and made me late for work!

With that said, I have seen puhlenty of car fires on gasoline vehicles in the past couple of years also. However, perhaps there needs to be better protection around the battery units thus adding weight which can be a problem.


12 posted on 10/04/2013 10:00:26 AM PDT by copaliscrossing (Comparison is the beginning of discontent.)
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To: Michael.SF.

Nah, the Pinto is immature technology as well. Just because it’s old, doesn’t mean it was ever developed to maturity. Works the same way with people too :)


13 posted on 10/04/2013 10:15:40 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: jazusamo

Yep. Li batteries can be very dangerous particularly at the voltage in electric cars.
No way around the problem w/o making the car heavier.


14 posted on 10/04/2013 10:20:47 AM PDT by Zathras
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To: jazusamo

I’m not sure I’d characterize the Tesla “corporate speak” as arrogant. It’s designed to deflect potential legal attention by saying as little, as drily as possible.

As for the design of the vehicle, any design that puts the lithium batteries in a vulnerable extremity of the vehicle is flawed. I’ve played with enough r/c airplanes to know that you don’t mess with lithium, you’ll burn your (house, car, valuables) down. Whenever I have damaged one (by crashing), I’ve made sure to dispose of it very quickly. A friend of mine wasn’t so lucky and his (not so) little plane burned on the runway.

There’s a reason that smarter car companies have buried the batteries in the center area of the car.


15 posted on 10/04/2013 10:24:18 AM PDT by Kommodor (Terrorist, Journalist or Democrat? I can't tell the difference.)
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To: Michael.SF.

Totally ignorant statement.

Hydrogen is the way to go, but government is impeding it by classifying a key compound as nuclear material. Look it up.

All this green/electric car BS is crony capitalism. Pull all the public dollars and let the markets work it out.

What works will bubble to the surface. In the meantime I classify lithium technology as something soon to be obsolete and best left skipped.


16 posted on 10/04/2013 10:34:43 AM PDT by logi_cal869
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To: logi_cal869

Perhaps I missed the discovery of vast hydrogen reserves. Last time I checked, you have to use energy to make hydrogen from natural gas or water.

On the other hand, with far less energy you can extract natural gas from vast reserves underground. Natural gas would be the logi_cal fuel source until the public develops the brains and the will to allow use of pebble bed or thorium molten salt reactors to make hydrogen.


17 posted on 10/04/2013 11:30:14 AM PDT by Go_Raiders (Freedom doesn't give you the right to take from others, no matter how innocent your program sounds.)
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To: logi_cal869

Imagine a debris punctured a hydrogen tank. Think it will fair better than Tesla Motors Model S?


18 posted on 10/13/2013 5:34:41 AM PDT by 4rcane
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To: 4rcane

Not so fast

http://www.safehydrogen.com/PDFs/28890o.pdf

Just one avenue of development. Imagine if private resources hadn’t been diverted to soon-to-be obsolete lithium battery electric tech...


19 posted on 10/16/2013 10:07:01 PM PDT by logi_cal869
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