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Pope Francis contemplates appointing a female cardinal
el paĆ­s ^ | 9-23-2013 | Juan Arias

Posted on 09/27/2013 2:17:01 PM PDT by ClaytonP

It’s not a joke. It’s something that Pope Francis has thought about before: naming a woman cardinal. Those who know the pope, both before and after he took over from Ratzinger, say that the first Jesuit pontiff is not only surprising people with his comments, but also with his actions. And this has been happening throughout his first six months in the role.

Those who think that Francis – who has all the simplicity of a parish priest – is a naïve man are wrong. This pope isn’t an ordinary pope. He has come to St. Peter’s with concrete plans for the Catholic Church: he wants to revive Christianity by taking it back to its origins.

The symbolism of his actions began when he first appeared on the balcony at St. Peter’s, calling himself “a bishop” and asking the people to bless him. Since then, he has wasted no time in making unexpected decisions, which have shocked those both inside and outside the Church.

And he will continue to do so, especially with his plans to appoint a female cardinal. He knows that a woman’s role in the Church is an unresolved issue that cannot wait any longer. He was clear about this during his interview with La Civiltà Cattolica last week. “The Church cannot be herself without the woman and her role,” he said. “The woman is essential for the Church. Mary, a woman, is more important than the bishops. I say this because we must not confuse the function with the dignity.”

Some would argue that women are not allowed to be deacons as they were 800 years ago

In other words, it was as if Pope Francis was saying: “The Church isn’t complete because the woman’s role is missing.”

How can he introduce that essential component? He answered the question himself during the interview: “We must therefore investigate further the role of women in the Church. We have to work harder to develop a profound theology of the woman.”

And that theology, according to the pope, cannot be construed within the Vatican’s walls.” The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions,” he said.

He may pave the way with discussions that urgently put the issue of a woman’s role in the Church on the table, or better yet, “in front of the altar.” And one of those gestures could be the naming of the first female cardinal. Is that feat impossible? No, because canonical law states that cardinals don’t have to be priests, they can be deacons.

Some would argue that women are not allowed to be deacons as they were 800 years ago among the first Christian communities. But this is one of the reforms that Francis has in mind; it is not based on any dogma. A woman could become a deaconess tomorrow if he so desired.

As Phyllis Zagano of Loyola University in Chicago, an expert on the issue, wrote: “A female deaconess is not an idea for the future. It is an issue for the present and today.”

Zagano brought up the matter with Cardinal Ratzinger before he became pope. “This is something that is being studied,” he told her. Pope Benedict XVI did not follow through but Pope Francis might.

The Armenian Apostolic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church, which have close links to the Vatican, both have deaconesses.

Any woman who is appointed deaconess can indeed become a cardinal without having to change canonical law.

Cardinals serve as advisors to the pope and their primary function is to elect a new pontiff.

“Knowing this pope, he wouldn’t hesitate before appointing a woman cardinal,” said one Jesuit priest. “And he would indeed enjoy being the first pope to allow women to participate in the selection of a new pontiff.”


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: cardinaless; cardinals; catholic; deaconess; fbomb; francis; pope; priestess; vatican; womanpriests; womynopriests
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To: 9YearLurker; iowamark
I understood that, as Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula. And which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.

And the pope may uniquely claim infallibility as an individual when speaking in accordance with this criteria.

And nothing you said refutes what i had said.

61 posted on 09/27/2013 4:58:39 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

You can of course disagree with their theology, but according to the rules of the church, what the pope says goes, essentially. Non-catholics, of course, don’t have standing—even if they think they’re reading of the Bible is superior to the Church’s.


62 posted on 09/27/2013 5:05:00 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: daniel1212
A female Cardinal lurking in the Vatican:


63 posted on 09/27/2013 5:39:21 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

What does Bud Selig think of that?


64 posted on 09/27/2013 5:43:21 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: 9YearLurker
You can of course disagree with their theology, but according to the rules of the church, what the pope says goes, essentially. Non-catholics, of course, don’t have standing—even if they think they’re reading of the Bible is superior to the Church’s

But i was not denying that what the pope says goes, usually, though not always. But which does not mean the veracity of truth claims rests upon the premise of the claimed infallibility of Rome, and make Scripture a subordinate authority, and protect Rome from reproof by it. Under that model the church would not be valid.

65 posted on 09/27/2013 5:56:19 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: HarleyD

Someone is crying fowl (broadly speaking)!


66 posted on 09/27/2013 6:01:16 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: AAABEST; ClaytonP; All
LOL. You hit the nail on the head.

The snark posters blow a lot of smoke because they hope the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded will be tarred with the same brush as the Methodist, Episcopal, Baptist, Independent, and other "Christian churches". All of those denominations preached the ordination of women was contrary to Scripture only fifty years ago but now are proud of their hundreds of women pastors. Those same churches also once refused to "marry" queers, ordain queers, and that contraption was a sin.

The loud and snarky crowd know it was the same doctrine of Self and Self Alone they profess and defend that led all those "Christian Churches" astray but hope no one will notice that fact.

The Bible teaches that the church is the pillar and bulwark of the faith and the falling away from Christianity in this country has moved in lock step with the spread of the doctrine of Self that claims there is no church other than the individual and no need for one.

Look around at the "most Christian nation in the world" where three quarters or more of the population has always been Protestant. Does the society reflect proper, unchanging, Christian, doctrine steadfast in the face of challenges?

Or, does it reflect the doctrines of men, the doctrine of Self and Self Alone that usurped the authority denominations had when even all Protestant churches taught that there were doctrines beyond individual modification they expected their members to accept and abide by rather than each one making up their own doctrine?

The doctrine of Self and Self Alone puts every individual in charge of deciding for their Self what is right and wrong, good or evil, and they even preach that the murder of infants in the womb is an acceptable exercise of "Christian Liberty" as long as it's done with "contraceptives" rather than invasive procedures.

The anti-Catholic snark crowd preach and teach the exact same Self Worship the hedonist society teaches, they just use different terms and claim God rather than Liberty dictates their views.

Naturally such people want to convince everyone they can that the Catholic Church will soon abandon what it's taught for nearly two thousand years and follow in the footsteps of those who rely on their Self and Self Alone.

Even they recognize how hard it's become to explain away their constant changes of direction in comparison to the Catholic Church teaching today the same things it's taught for nearly two thousand years.

The snarky and loud crowd seem more like raging heathens every day but they're fading fast.

They were once all over the place but now only congregate where they know they can rely on a crooked dealer to deal them their cards.

67 posted on 09/27/2013 7:34:48 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: daniel1212
make Scripture a subordinate authority"

Absolute garbage.

The Catholic Church tests everything against Scripture and nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture.

68 posted on 09/27/2013 7:38:42 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: ClaytonP; Alex Murphy; metmom
Legend has it that they once had a female Pope.

When in Rome: The Legend of Papessa Giovanna

69 posted on 09/27/2013 8:08:07 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: daniel1212

LOL!!! Given this Pope it would not surprise me to see him appoint a female Cardinal. He seems to be very unconventional and saying things that seems to be out of the norm of traditional Catholic teaching. Already I don’t know how many articles have been published or how many electronic digits have been sacrificed to tell us what the Pope really meant to say. I wonder if they did their homework when they appointed him.

What will be a hoot is when our Catholic friends trying to justify the Pope appointment of a female Cardinal after they’ve argued against it. All of a sudden it will be a wise decision or they’ll grudgingly accept it. Don’t be surprise to see an article or two on how Mary was actually the first Cardinal. After all, she advised our Lord Jesus to turn the water into wine. That should qualify for something. ;O)

I suppose in the end our Catholic friends will just chalk it up to the Pope infallible wisdom and we’ll hear how this was Church teaching all along. Much like many other things we’re told to believe.


70 posted on 09/28/2013 1:45:48 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Rashputin; daniel1212
The Catholic Church tests everything against Scripture and nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture.

I know Daniel does very well defending his positions on the Catholic Church but since I'm up...

The Church doesn't contradict Scripture (at least so they say). What is far worst is they've added to Scripture.

71 posted on 09/28/2013 1:53:42 AM PDT by HarleyD (...one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.)
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To: ClaytonP

What would you call a woman Cardinal?

Your Feminence.


72 posted on 09/28/2013 1:55:06 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: ClaytonP

The “first Christian communities” were 800 years ago?


73 posted on 09/28/2013 1:57:18 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: ClaytonP
Some would argue that women are not allowed to be deacons as they were 800 years ago among the first Christian communities.

Something's wrong here, I think. Not sure the author of the article knows how to count, or is aware that the current year-numbering methodology (which says we are in the year 2013) starts (roughly - I know all the stuff about the calendar change throws things off by a few years) at the beginning of Christianity.
74 posted on 09/28/2013 2:12:06 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: daniel1212

That’s a fine non-Catholic or anti-Catholic position, but whether you personally deem the Catholic church to be valid is really not the issue.


75 posted on 09/28/2013 2:16:52 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Rashputin; HarleyD
"...make Scripture a subordinate authority"

Absolute garbage. The Catholic Church tests everything against Scripture and nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture.

That is a very superficial understanding, but Scripture is not the supreme authority for RCs, they are not to engage in objectively examination of it in order to ascertain the veracity of truth claims.

If Rome is the only authority than can define what Scripture consists of (i.e. the canon) and authoritatively tell us what it means, then in effect Rome is the supreme authority, over Scripture. It can be said that nothing it teaches can contradict Scripture, because the only interpretation that has authority is that which she sanctions.

But the church did not begin under the premise that the magisterium of the stewards of Scripture, and the promises, and possessing historical descent, were the infallible interpreters of Scripture. That would be "garbage.

Instead it began in dissent from those who, like Rome, presumed a level of assured veracity, and added to and contradicted Scripture. Which, being the supreme authority, the Lord reproved them by, and established His own claims upon Scriptural substantiation, in word and in power. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc .)

76 posted on 09/28/2013 8:10:04 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: HarleyD
The Church doesn't contradict Scripture (at least so they say). What is far worst is they've added to Scripture.

They can do both as Rome is a law unto herself.

77 posted on 09/28/2013 9:00:04 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
ROTFLOL !!!!!!!

So says a Self and Self Alone advocate who believes in starting here

but pretends Self and Self Alone doesn't lead inevitably to this sort of garbage

How can someone in their right mind who claims to believe what Scripture says about the fallen nature of man, claims that Jesus Christ ignored non inspired books being included in the Septuagint Christ Himself quoted from, claims that the Holy Spirit could not and did not protect God's Holy Word from the inclusion of error, swallow the lie that Self and Self Alone is capable of doing what they claim Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit could not do with regard to His Word?

How can the same folks swallow the lie that the Holy Spirit has not guided and protected The One,Holy,Catholic,and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded, the only organization on earth that can trace it's teaching and leadership directly back to the Apostle Peter, the oldest continuously existing organization on earth, an organization that began with Jesus Christ Himself handing authority to the Apostle Peter who Jesus Christ Himself had given a new name just as He gave Abraham a new name, but that the same Holy Spirit they claim is totally incapable of protecting Scripture and the Church Christ Himself established from error, does protect from error the tens of thousands of groups and millions of Self and Self Alone individuals that all disagree with one another and all claim they are the only correct group or individual?

Someone can only fall for that lie if they refuse to accept the Word of God which clearly states that the Church, not the individual, is the pillar and bulwark of the Truth. Refusing to accept His Word opens them to falling for literally the oldest lie in the book, the same lie Eve fell for, the same lie people like Wycliffe and Luther swallowed, the same lie that has led such folks to embrace not only that oldest of all lies but to accepting the heresy of Core and even to throwing portions of God's Holy Word into the garbage.

The strong delusion of Self and Self Alone without fail leads people away from Christ and more often than not ends with either apathy or Self Worship.

I Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness:
I Corinthians 1:24 But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

78 posted on 09/28/2013 11:02:36 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: daniel1212

79 posted on 09/28/2013 11:26:05 AM PDT by narses
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To: narses

Sad to see so much Catholic bashing.


80 posted on 09/28/2013 1:04:20 PM PDT by NewCenturions
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