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Greenfield: Coming to America
Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog ^
| Monday, June 17, 2013
| Daniel Greenfield
Posted on 06/17/2013 5:12:53 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell
Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog
How does one define a nation? That is truly the fundamental question of amnesty.
The libertarian argument in favor of amnesty comes down to the question of whether nations even necessary at all. If the only characteristic that matters is freedom then borders and the other vestiges of nationhood only interfere with the flow of the free market.

America then becomes a set of ideas and its only usefulness is as a space for harboring those ideas. This ideological definition of a nation demands that it sacrifice its survival to its ideas.
This notion is found most strongly among liberals for whom the actual physical survival of the country ranks a distant second to its duty to live up to its ideals. That is why liberals can argue that torture is wrong even in a ticking nuclear bomb scenario.
In the real world countries don't do well as vehicles for ideology. A country is a practical entity that encompasses the real life needs and challenges of people, while an ideology tends toward rigid self-righteous fantasies. Countries need ideologies to define them, but becoming prisoners to rigid ideological ideals can destroy them.
Any ideology whose logic is followed to its final conclusion leads to a horrifying and unlivable society.
The logic of libertarian amnesty would fill the voting rolls full of supporters of big government and the welfare state in the name of economic freedom. It's not the worst illustration of how ideologies commit suicide through following the siren song of their logic to the farthest north. It's not even the worst such example involving immigration. That honor belongs to the European left whose immigration policies have doomed the survival of every value it claims to care for. But it is typical of the destruction wrought by dismissing people and their nations as interchangeable cogs in a machine of ideas.
The multicultural left is not entirely wrong about cultural relativism; it is only wrong in assuming that its existence demonstrates the lack of any absolute values or truths.
To a tribal society, America is a land forever in contention and American leaders are mere tyrants who represent no one. In a tribal society where legitimacy stems from family, the President of the United States is no more than a bandit with a large army and a heap of weapons. Not only does he have no tribe, but he boasts of his confusing tribelessness in his books, at times pretending to be a member of different tribes.
America is a power to tribals, not a tribe. An empire that fills its land with tribes and imagines that it can rule over them. A land in which their tribe may rise supreme.
What happens when an identity based on economic regulation or deregulation meets one based on family? The expansion of the welfare state is only one of the minor consequences of this collision.
Democrats and Republicans have come to think of themselves as regulators and deregulators, but for all the flowery prose that gets trotted out at conventions, this is less an identity than an engineering philosophy of government that has little meaning to tribals who view government as either "mine" or "yours", as a source of patronage, money and power to their tribe or to their rivals.
Family is largely immune to the clash of ideas. Ideas are for introverted societies exploring their own depths while families are for extroverted societies bound on missions of conquest. While the introverted society explores inner space, the extroverted society explores the outer space at its borders.
While the ideologues study to see how the tribals will fit into their plans, the tribals are checking out the real estate. That is how it happened in the Roman Empire. That is how it happening in the clumsy new Rome of the EU.
TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: amnesty; gangof8; grahmnesty; greenfield; sultanknish
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To: arasina; daisy mae for the usa; AdvisorB; wizardoz; free-in-nyc; Vendome; Georgia Girl 2; ...
Coming to America, soon, at your local cinema, with affect.
2
posted on
06/17/2013 5:14:00 AM PDT
by
Louis Foxwell
(This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
To: Louis Foxwell
You know I don’t think I have seen more critical thinking in this Ounty in my entire life. So if nothing else, Obama has made us examine ourselves and made us appreciate our freedoms more than any other time in American history with the exception of when our country was first founded. He has made us realize how good we once had it here and the true evils of socialism and it’s true purpose - to steal from its citizens and assimilate their wealth and establish an ogliarchy with the pretense of being a democratic Repulic.
To: jsanders2001
You know I dont think I have seen more critical thinking in this country in my entire life. So if nothing else, Obama has made us examine ourselves and appreciate our freedoms more than any other time in American history with the exception of when our country was first founded. He has made us realize how good we once had it here and the true evils of socialism and its true purpose - to steal from its citizens and assimilate their wealth and establish an ogliarchy with the pretense of being a democratic Repulic.
To: Louis Foxwell
Love his definition of “Ideology”.
Still praying for Dan, that his family health issues will be resolved, and that his writings will continue!
5
posted on
06/17/2013 5:24:37 AM PDT
by
left that other site
(You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
To: jsanders2001
Agreed. Obama is patriotism’s best motivation. By the sheer intensity of the chaos he has loosed he forces Americans to look hard at the direction our country is taking and develop tactics to turn the ship of state in the opposite direction. Change? Yes we need change. We need change from all the change we are suffering.
6
posted on
06/17/2013 5:41:08 AM PDT
by
Louis Foxwell
(This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
To: jsanders2001
You said...
“You know I dont think I have seen more critical thinking in this country in my entire life. So if nothing else, Obama has made us examine ourselves and appreciate our freedoms more than any other time in American history with the exception of when our country was first founded. He has made us realize how good we once had it here and the true evils of socialism and its true purpose - to steal from its citizens and assimilate their wealth and establish an ogliarchy with the pretense of being a democratic Repulic.”
I have been hearing ordinary, non political people around me talk more and more about the belief we are descending into some sort of dictatorship. I'm not talking about the real hardcore hopey changers, but those who may have voted for BHO the first time because it seemed like it might work.
7
posted on
06/17/2013 6:02:22 AM PDT
by
LMAO
("Begging hands and Bleeding hearts will only cry out for more"...Anthem from Rush)
To: Louis Foxwell
I do not subscribe to any idea of amnesty, period.
Either the individual that wishes to EMIGRATE to this great nation, do so within the legal funnel (which could be less bloated) as it exists, or cringe with the fear of discovery, incarceration, or worse, depending if your country of origin has been conducting belligerent activities against America.
We need to defund any and all federal, state, and municipal programs that enable these illegal immigrants to become comfortable.
Any and all illegal immigrants that are found to be connected with any gangs or criminal groups, need to exterminated, by reason of supporting subversive groups and subversive activity, thereby endangering national security, period.
They are NOT American citizens, and therefore, NOT eligible for protection under The Bill of Rights. This includes any and all offspring, (aka ‘anchor babies’) since the parents are not citizens.
You, the reader, may call this, whatever you wish, but it is based on 61 years of watching this stuff, and it is NOT open for debate, or negotiation, or attempts at informing me that “it ain’t PC”.
To: LMAO
> I have been hearing ordinary, non political people around me talk more and more about the belief we are descending into some sort of dictatorship. I’m not talking about the real hardcore hopey changers, but those who may have voted for BHO the first time because it seemed like it might work.
As the youth that voted for a 0 grow older and have to pay more and more taxes and see political injustices they will realize why us older folks pay attention to politics; because it hits us hard in our pocketbooks and affects our freedoms, our standard of living, health, and sense of well being. They are just now starting to figure out they’re victims of the larger bit and switch scandal ever perpetrated on the American people.
To: jsanders2001
As the youth that voted for a 0 grow older and have to pay more and more taxes and see political injustices they will realize why us older folks pay attention to politics; because it hits us hard in our pocketbooks and affects our freedoms, our standard of living, health, and sense of well being. They are just now starting to figure out theyre victims of the largest bait and switch scandal ever perpetrated on the American people.
To: Terry L Smith; sickoflibs
The reason John McCain and other elites are pushing for illegals to come here is they don't see these people as ‘neighbors’ or potential friends... they see them as a submissive servant class.
A submissive servant class - hard working and ‘knows their place’ is what elites hunger for...gardeners, home health care workers, maids.... it's sick and creepy - and we need to tell them “NO”...
That's what's offensive. We can handle different tribes - even for those of us who tend toward introvert... especially those of us who tend toward introvert. But we're not interested in creating a two tiered society based on the ‘needs’ of our elites. They want a class structure. We want a society of equals. Elitism is not the American way. That's the issue.
11
posted on
06/17/2013 6:49:56 AM PDT
by
GOPJ
(Why don't Democrats waste their time trying to win the votes of gun owners? - Coulter)
To: jsanders2001
As the youth that voted for a 0 grow older and have to pay more and more taxes and see political injustices they will realize why us older folks pay attention to politics...Reminds me of that famous saying of the Greek statesman, Pericles: "Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."
To: GOPJ
A submissive servant class - hard working and knows their place is what elites hunger for...gardeners, home health care workers, maids.... it's sick and creepy - and we need to tell them NO... Not only that, but the smug GOPe sells the idea that their indentured servants will vote for them perennially because they are all true red state conservatives at heart. That's the most gauling aspect to me. The political cynicism of the power grab over constitutional sovergeinty is acute. The republican party smells of rotten corpse.
13
posted on
06/17/2013 7:34:30 AM PDT
by
TADSLOS
(The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
To: TADSLOS
The republican party smells of rotten corpse. McCain carries the stench of elitism...
14
posted on
06/17/2013 7:39:43 AM PDT
by
GOPJ
(Why don't Democrats waste their time trying to win the votes of gun owners? - Coulter)
To: Louis Foxwell
Hi Louis, I tried to post this as a vanity, but since I’ve never done one before, I don’t know if it went through. Perhaps you will consider sending this to the other Sultan Knish subscribers - it’s a NYC anecdote:
From Kabumpo:
This afternoon I was walking down Broadway near Lincoln Center with a musician friend when we passed by John Voigt, who was standing in the street - he was standing and talking to two people. I turned around and went back, and said “I’m a fan of your work.” He shook my hand and thanked me, and than I added, “I’m also a fan of your political work” - he looked surprised (hello, this is NYC), and thanked me again. I said, “no - thank *you* - the political work you do is very significant.”
15
posted on
06/17/2013 2:41:14 PM PDT
by
kabumpo
(Kabumpo)
To: GOPJ
I have never bought into the “elites vs the world” ideology.
Senator John McCain was a member of The Keating Five, and has yet to come face to face with the judgment deserved his crimes.
This nation has had borders for a long time.
The Islamic jihadist threats have just made things worse.
The “illegal immigrants”, either with no visas, or with expired student visas, or those damnable anti_American corporate visas, need to be forced out at gunpoint.
Our national security should come first, before some stupid wetback, or their ‘born here baby by design’.
To: kabumpo
If you put ALL in the To: box everyone on the list will get it. Great story. Thank you.
17
posted on
06/17/2013 2:55:17 PM PDT
by
Louis Foxwell
(This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
To: All
From Kabumpo: This afternoon I was walking down Broadway near Lincoln Center with a musician friend when we passed by John Voigt, who was standing in the street - he was standing and talking to two people. I turned around and went back, and said Im a fan of your work. He shook my hand and thanked me, and than I added, Im also a fan of your political work - he looked surprised (hello, this is NYC), and thanked me again. I said, no - thank *you* - the political work you do is very significant.
18
posted on
06/17/2013 3:25:31 PM PDT
by
kabumpo
(Kabumpo)
To: All
From Kabumpo: This afternoon I was walking down Broadway near Lincoln Center with a musician friend when we passed by John Voigt, who was standing in the street - he was standing and talking to two people. I turned around and went back, and said Im a fan of your work. He shook my hand and thanked me, and than I added, Im also a fan of your political work - he looked surprised (hello, this is NYC), and thanked me again. I said, no - thank *you* - the political work you do is very significant.
19
posted on
06/17/2013 3:25:55 PM PDT
by
kabumpo
(Kabumpo)
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