Posted on 11/28/2012 12:57:41 PM PST by Renfield
SEATTLE – In two weeks, adults in this state will no longer be arrested or incarcerated for something that nearly 30 million Americans did last year. For the first time since prohibition began 75 years ago, recreational marijuana use will be legal; the misery-inducing crusade to lock up thousands of ordinary people has at last been seen, by a majority of voters in this state and in Colorado, for what it is: a monumental failure.
That is, unless the Obama administration steps in with an injunction, as it has threatened to in the past, against common sense. For what stands between ending this absurd front in the dead-ender war on drugs and the status quo is the federal government. It could intervene, citing the supremacy of federal law that still classifies marijuana as a dangerous drug....
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com ...
He may have been credible at one time. But no more.
So if you don't have a political future you're not "credible"? What a bizarre definition.
Do YOU have a political future?
Many people are addicted to the mind-altering drug alcohol - should that drug be illegal?
Check out my comment towards the end of this thread, I am 100% sure my solution will work.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2962365/posts
The gateway claim is nonsense - research shows that the correlation between earlier marijuana use and later use of other drugs can be explained by a "common-factor" model, that is, a third factor that causes both results, such as individuals' opportunities and unique propensities to use drugs, or mor broadly a social or psychological predisposition towards anti-social behaviour. (http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB6010/index1.html, http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hors253.pdf)
Also note that the same sort of correlation between earlier marijuana and later harder drugs also exists between earlier alcohol and tobacco and later illegal drugs - so if marijuana is a "gateway" so are alcohol and tobacco.
In a previous life I worked in LEO specifically narcotics. I have extensive experience in seeing what dope does not only to user, but the family and community, so I chuckle at folks who like to say it isn’t that bad, it is my body, mind your business, what I do at home... yada yada.
That said, I hated arresting anyone for a quantity of MJ under an amount that I considered distributable, it sucked. It clogs our jails, creates mountains of paperwork for me on a BS arrest, creates a criminal record for someone, and creates an bad relationship between LEO and community (in some cases, also in some cases I did not care). Very rarely does that person actually flip and become a useful informant but that is why we had to pursue them to get into the upper tier.
I do like that most of the now-a-days arrests for possession amounts of MJ are really just issued summons like a traffic ticket. I do feel different about Schedule 1 and 2 substances. Hammer those folks on any amount above a trace/residue. That stuff is just evil and I have seen that first hand so nobody will ever convince me different.
I felt that if employers, membership groups, teams, or other entities did not want you using it was upon them to do drug testing or whatever to guarantee their rights. This goes hand in hand with tort reform to protect them from frivolous lawsuit for dismissals for abuse.
In a way this is already done. Without going into a big description and risk starting a whole new argument on acceptance of tattoos, piercings etc... You can see what usage does when a person uses follows that life and dresses like an idiot (South Pole type clothes, hats on side ways, not bathing, wearing pajamas all day, dirty clothes, baggy pants, skin tight clothes on tweaker girls), tattoos and piercings, poor communications skills. They work in temp jobs, menial labor, window foods service (at lessor chains). They need to realize that nobody wants them to represent their business, but they moan and groan about having to work those jobs. Yes I know their are people who have beat the “man’s oppressive system” and use all the while employed or start their own business and some become very successful (Apple, Hollywood, sports). I submit that is the exception and luck played a major role.
Ultimately I feel the WOD is necessary but needs to be integrated with our immigration policy (or lack thereof). Build a fence, a real fence and shutdown the borders. Dry up the supply side and demand will take its course. Everything coming in is suspect until cleared. That is one area of government I don’t mind growing.
As far as domestic drugs, continue policing pre-cursor chemicals and chase the manufacturers and users here, hard.
Example, my sons were in Afghanistan for multiple tours and tell me about walking through the poppy fields and being given standing orders not to touch or disrupt that “business”. Get serious? You want to stop heroin, Afghanistan is responsible for 3/4 of the worlds illicit supply. Agent orange the stuff, problem solved, but our leaders spout the drivel that it will cause them to hate us for killing their livelihood and turn to the Taliban or others for means to live. BS! BS! They hate us now and they work for the Taliban who do they think gets the money, freaking oxygen thieves have no clue.
I need to stop I am getting wound up and am starting to see tangents. :)
No it won't - many people lack the patience or aptitude to grow good pot. As for executions: dealers visit that on each other regularly, without the protections afforded by the justice system, yet dealing continues to take place.
No, what you saw were users who used to a degree of irresponsibility that LE got involved. LE in general often has occasion to deal with drunks, but we would be flat wrong in supposing that most users of the addictive mind-altering drug alcohol are like those encountered by LE.
And what did you see dope do to the community?
Ooh, people lack patience to grow it. Too effing bad. And the execution of dealers should take place after 1 week of jail time, and publicly.
The entire “justice system” needs to be seriously re-arranged.
Another aspect is get rid of all - ALL welfare. AFDC, food stamps, HUD, energy assistence, free/cheap phones, free medical, every bit of it. Then people will be worrying about food, not about dope. And if they want dope, grow it.
Too effing bad for your refuted conclusion that "This brings the price down to nothing, gets rid of professional dope dealers".
And the execution of dealers should take place after 1 week of jail time, and publicly.
The entire “justice system” needs to be seriously re-arranged.
So we need to dismantle our 2-century-old system of protections for innocent defendants, in order to combat a trade in disapproved recreational substances? Doesn't sound like conservatism to me.
Another aspect is get rid of all - ALL welfare. AFDC, food stamps, HUD, energy assistence, free/cheap phones, free medical, every bit of it.
I'm all for that.
They weren't stupid or lazy. They were very clever.
Votes are now needed to make pot legal. Funny, we never got to vote to make it illegal in the first place.
No. All listed have one thing in common - a victim harmed by a perpetrator. That was the point of my post. No victim, no crime.
Just for the record, "thou shall not commit adultry", "thou shall not steal" and "thou shall not bear false witness" cover most of the above list.
Run down property, elder parents/relatives being taken advantage of, child abuse/neglect, lost time/wages (same for drunks). “Good” users (a paradox) are affected by the bad ones through things like exposure to stronger drugs and bad behaviors, the cavalier attitude toward authority (like dims and libertarians).
Go and rationalize to someone else unless you spent time in those circles you are clueless looking in from the burbs. Please don’t try and list your street creds.
No, what you saw were users who used to a degree of irresponsibility that LE got involved. LE in general often has occasion to deal with drunks, but we would be flat wrong in supposing that most users of the addictive mind-altering drug alcohol are like those encountered by LE.
And what did you see dope do to the community?
Run down property,
Dope didn't do that, property owners did - many property owners do so without being on dope, and many who are on dope don't.
elder parents/relatives being taken advantage of,
Dope didn't do that, people did - many people do so without being on dope, and many who are on dope don't.
child abuse/neglect,
Yes, some children are victimized when their parents use drugs - including alcohol - to the point of being unable to care for them. If that's not sufficient reason to ban the drug alcohol, it's also not sufficient reason to ban other drugs.
lost time/wages (same for drunks).
How is this something done "to the community"?
“Good” users (a paradox)
Are good users of the drug alcohol a paradox?
are affected by the bad ones through things like exposure to stronger drugs and bad behaviors, the cavalier attitude toward authority (like dims and libertarians).
So it's government's job to protect people from exposure to temptations?! And cavalier attitudes?!? I think you're looking for Democratic Underground or Daily Kos - this is a limited-government site.
Many people say incest, and even pedophilia, are consensual and harm no one. ANd can animals give consent? Bestiality practioners have reasons why they think it’s a good idea. Necrophilia? No victim.
Your support of dope is duly noted.
Those True Scotsman sure are scarce sometimes...
If people are determined to smoke it and get stupid, it's up to them to grow it. Personal responsbility and all that good non-nanny state stuff. If anyone can grow for personal use only, and sellers are punished publicly - say first with caning, then execution after the second offense - guaranteed this will bring the price way way down - not even worth selling.
So we need to dismantle our 2-century-old system of protections for innocent defendants, in order to combat a trade in disapproved recreational substances? Doesn't sound like conservatism to me.
No, I'm referring to corruption and leftist crap, not real justice. The politicians like to keep the war on drugs just bad enough to keep the prices high, so banks can launder drug money and politicians can get their cuts. I'm not saying dismantle the theoretical foundation of justice system, just the corruption it's turned into.
Your support of dope is duly noted.
I feel the same about alcohol. If your life sucks enough you need a chronic escape then I pity you.
Besides it worked for our current CiC so it must be good.
Trust me I am more limited government than you have a clue about. I just know what destroys a society besides apathy.
If people are determined to smoke it and get stupid, it's up to them to grow it. [...] If anyone can grow for personal use only,
Those who can't or won't grow it will continue to patronize professional dope dealers and prop up prices.
and sellers are punished publicly - say first with caning, then execution after the second offense - guaranteed this will bring the price way way down - not even worth selling.
Still wrong - as I said, dealers visit that on each other regularly, without the protections afforded by the justice system, yet dealing continues to take place.
So we need to dismantle our 2-century-old system of protections for innocent defendants, in order to combat a trade in disapproved recreational substances? Doesn't sound like conservatism to me.
No, I'm referring to corruption
Explain to us how you'll eliminate this as-old-as-mankind problem.
and leftist crap
Specifically?
Your support of dope is
nonexistent. Your slimy personal attack is duly noted.
As I note your wonderful big government nanny state program's "success" at trashing the 4th amendment and empowerment of Mexican drug cartels.
My first post on this thread was the fact that spending billions, locking up millions and destruction of the 4th amendment actually made that which you abhor cheaper, more potent and more readily available.
My replies are on the topic of the thread.
It’s useless trying to debate with potheads who cannot think rationally. Neither of you has refuted a single point I’ve made. I used to smoke weed and hash many years ago so I know all about what it does.
Have a nice day. Now go play with your minds, since that’s all this “debate” has been. Your thought processes have dead ended.
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