Posted on 11/20/2012 9:52:39 AM PST by MichCapCon
Every year, newspapers across the state print the report card that the state of Michigan gives its public schools for parents to see how well their children’s schools are doing.
But what the articles don’t tell readers is that many districts with failing marks in student achievement are allowed to give themselves a score of 100 percent for completing a report on how it plans to improve itself. In many cases, that self-reported “A” inflates would-be grades of “F” to a passing grade.
Schools across the state get an automatic “A” for filling out a report on “indicators of school performance.” The report focuses on the school’s plans for self-improvement. The automatic “A” accounts for one-third of the school’s Education YES! state report card grade.
In August, the Lansing State Journal published all the EducationYes grades for the schools in Lansing Public Schools.
The newspaper article cites Sheridan Road School with a grade of “C.” However, Sheridan Road School had an “F” in Reading and an “F” in Mathematics in its only grades on student achievement. But with the help of the automatic “A,” the school ended up with a “C.”
Newspapers across the state publish the report cards with the inflated grades. MLive listed the grades of hundreds of schools.
In the Grand Rapids School District, Congress Elementary was given a “C.” It got that passing grade despite getting “F”s in Reading and Mathematics — the only two areas of student achievement that were measured.
"Who is helped by this?” said Michael Van Beek, director of education policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.
Van Beek said the system only helps districts that are failing in student achievement hide their grades.
"Parents aren’t helped by this because they don’t get an accurate assessment of how their school is performing,” Van Beek said.
Although plans for self-improvement are important, they should not carry nearly the same weight as student achievement when it comes to determining a report card grade, Van Beek said.
Two years ago, Michigan Capitol Confidential reported on a similar problem. At the time, a Michigan Department of Education spokesman said the automatic 100 percent grade was only for one year and that a new system would change it.
The MDE spokespeople didn’t return requests for comment on why a new system hasn't been implemented. The superintendents in the Lansing and Grand Rapids schools didn’t return emails seeking comment.
With 85% of children from active evangelical Christian homes failing to be active in their faith 2 years after graduating from high school, I'd say any seeds be thrown about are being thoroughly trampled by the Marxists pigs that control the schools and godless curriculum.
If the outcomes are **this** horrendous for children who parents are seriously committed to the Christian faith, how well are non-Christians or those from weakly Christian homes going to do?
What I see from Christian government school teachers are **rationalizations** for supporting and upholding a system that is extremely toxic and even **abusive** to children. Of course, financial remuneration would have nothing to do with it. /s
And....The very **worst** thing Christian government teachers do is set a bad example for naive and inexperienced parents. Hey! If Mrs. Honey Bun, the minister's wife and choir director, can teach in the godless schools, then they can't be **that** bad. Answer: They are **that** bad. And....The statistics for spiritually surviving the godless indoctrination are horrendous.
With 85% of children from active evangelical Christian homes failing to be active in their faith 2 years after graduating from high school, I’d say any seeds be thrown about are being thoroughly trampled by the Marxists pigs that control the schools and godless curriculum.
If the outcomes are **this** horrendous for children who parents are seriously committed to the Christian faith, how well are non-Christians or those from weakly Christian homes going to do?
What I see from Christian government school teachers are **rationalizations** for supporting and upholding a system that is extremely toxic and even **abusive** to children. Of course, financial remuneration would have nothing to do with it. /s
And....The very **worst** thing Christian government teachers do is set a bad example for naive and inexperienced parents. Hey! If Mrs. Honey Bun, the minister’s wife and choir director, can teach in the godless schools, then they can’t be **that** bad. Answer: They are **that** bad. And....The statistics for spiritually surviving the godless indoctrination are horrendous.
All this is carnal thinking. You think like a person of this world, rather than a person of the next. As such, you cannot see that the “seeds” that are being sown ARE FOR GOD to grow, not men, not women, not Godly parents, not teachers, but GOD. According to the parable, some seeds will be eaten by the birds of the air—the Marxist pigs, if you like. If God wants that seed to germinate and bring forth fruit, no Marxist pig is going to be able to do anything about it. Salvation is all of the Lord. Man does not control this. It is by God’s Spirit that a person responds to “the seed sown.”
The rationalization you see is through the lens that prevents you from trusting that God can do exceeding, abundantly above all that we ask or think. You look at this life and conclude how God must operate. You limit God. God is able to take the worst Marxist pig and turn him into the strongest Christian (and if you don’t believe that, may I introduce you to Paul). According to the parable, the seed was sown in a variety of soils. Not just the one deemed sufficient by the sower—everywhere! His job wasn’t to prepare the soil, his job was to sow the seed. If that is not what you are doing in your Christian life, then you aren’t living the Christian life. If the soil where you sow is rocky soil, you sow the seed. If the soil where you sow is strewn with thorns, you sow the seed. If the soil where you sow is by the wayside, you sow the seed. If the soil is good ground, you sow the seed. You make no distinction of the soil, you simply sow the seed. Jesus said this about this particular parable when questioned by His disciples, “Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?” This is basic Christianity.
As to financial considerations: I taught for ten years in the Northeast and topped out at $37.5K. I left teaching for eight years (ostensibly, so I could make some money). I came back and have been teaching for the past 7 years. I am currently making $40K. I use to spend my “summers off” looking for a part-time job so I could get through July and August because, strangely, I wasn’t quite able to save enough of my salary (37K) to get me through those months living in the NYC area (imagine that!). I do not bring this up to sing the blues...I bring this up because you are under the impression that every teacher is somehow “in it for the money/benefits/time off. I teach because, by the grace of God, I am what I am. I can communicate effectively. I enjoy discussing books/reading/writing. I have a passion for persuading others (as you can tell by all my posting verbosity!—Hey, I may not be the best at it, but I enjoy it nonetheless). And, I am able to reach out to the more than 60% of teens growing up today in single-parent homes...or homes with drug-abusing parents...or parents who physically abuse their kids...or abandon them altogether...or who are just trying to make sense of the world that you don’t think they have a clue about! I am a guide and a helper to them, a living reference for their questions, doubts, fears, anger, confusion. They know more than you that schools are broken...they’ve suffered through such madness at the hands of public schools it would sicken you. They’ve seen their classmates behave like animals, their own teachers acting as if they don’t care, they’ve been socially promoted to where nothing has any value (since nothing of value can still receive a decent grade). I do not inflict abuse, I salve wounds. I imitate Christ:
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
You look at all this as a waste of time, given where it is done...or, worse, as antithetical to saving of souls, exacerbating the problem by offering some grand delusion that schools are okay [enough] to send one’s children to. All carnal. But it doesn’t really matter how wintertime (or Mardav) views this. What matters is what the Lord says about it. As a student of the Bible, I have found nothing in Scripture that indicates that what I am doing is antithetical to His purposes for me, for my students, or for my students’ parents.
As to statistics about success or failure (be it homeschooled children or public school children). Here are some statistics to bear in mind:
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.
And:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. .
And:
“For MANY are called, but few are chosen.”
There are plenty of “professing Christians” who aren’t “possessing Christians” - they do not possess (or, actually, that are possessed by) the salvation of the Lord. Do you not suppose that some of these “MANY” will be found to have been homeschooled by their “christian” parents? Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for homeschooling (as I’ve said, we do it in our home), but the very act of homeschooling does not in and of itself, assure anyone of salvation. Salvation is a gift of God, not of works. Greater opportunity to witness, to present scripture, to teach Christ—True, True, True. But that “seed” still has to fall on the good soil and God still has to bring forth the increase. And that good soil can walk in the door of a public school on any given day just waiting for the sowing of a seed. And that’s where I and other Christian teachers come in. Until you (okay, not just you, but we—America) INSIST on tearing down public schools, you are just hyperventilating. Schools are bad, schools are horrible. Schools are corrupt. Schools are failing. ALL THE EVIDENCE ANYONE WOULD EVER WANT IS ON DISPLAY RIGHT NOW FOR ALL TO SEE. The test scores ARE in. The statistics ALREADY show the failure. The work force is ALREADY ill-equipped to take us into the next phase of economic growth and expansion. It’s there. It’s done. It’s a given. Where’s the change? You say, “Well, it’s because those danged Christian teachers are making it seem like things are going pretty okay.” Give me a break. If anyone heard you say that, they’d laugh you to shame. Christian teachers weep for their students KNOWING they won’t have a chance in this highly complex world, unless something drastic happens. Christian teachers aren’t the reason why public schools perpetuate. “Light has come into the world, but men preferred darkness because their deeds were evil,” is why public schools continue. We live in a lost and dying world. The sinning soul wants none of Christ. Withdraw the Christian teachers and you still have public schools, but maybe with more of an edge to them. The Holy Spirit is the only thing on this earth that is restraining sin from having its full sway right now. When the Lord comes and takes His people home, this will not be a pretty place. Take Christian teachers out of the schools and just how bad will they become?! Do we want to find out? This won’t shut them down. It will only create more job openings for the godless.
No, your problem isn’t the Christian teacher. Your problem may be you, though, and all the wasted energy you spend crying “Wah, wah, wah,” over the situation, instead of DOING something about it. You are angry, frustrated, and looking for someone to blame, ridicule, scorn for the blight placed upon our nation, finding part (much?) of the problem emanating from our public schools. But, you are not productive. Your energy is wasted. Complaining gets you nothing. Where’s your protest going to be on Monday, HMMMMMM? When are you marching down to your local church, to pray with the saints there, to ask them to gather with all the churches across your town so that you can go picket in front of every school in your district until changes are made, HMMMMMMM? When is wintertime going to take his/her own money and invest it in a full page ad (or a billboard) seeking to rally support for this noble cause, HMMMMMMM? What about all the petitions you’ve written to your congressman, your senator. What follow-up have you done to ensure that your voice is being heard, HMMMMMM? You’ve got passion. You’ve got energy to engage me for going on 3 days now. You’ve got a burden for this work. Why are you so unfocused when it comes to something you care so much about? You’ve got the Freepers here to help you. You’ve got the folks that correspond on that Homeschool List here at FR.
Oh, and after you’ve changed the schools, you may want to head on over to the abortion clinics, as they are still up and running, too! Sow some seed, man, but stop trying to trample the work of the Lord going on in my part of the garden!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don”t need to do any trampling. The godless Marxists, the Marxist curriculum and Marxist controlled textbooks ( that Christian teachers gleefully implement and handout) are doing more than enough trampling.
If anyone is doing the trampling of seeds, it is the Christian teachers who willingly seek, support, uphold, and establish the godless government indoctrination centers.
These “seeds” are thoroughly seeped in atheist sewage but Christian teachers have no scruples about force feeding it to the captive children.
As for “doing” something about it:
I am sounding the alarm.
Think about this. People who do this are attacking the poster **personally** and NOT addressing the issue in a general manner.
However.... I am **certain**, though, since that professional government teachers would **never** use this emotionally abusive and manipulative debating tactic in their godless classrooms with their educationally and socially immature students. I am certain that this is one of the more important teaching principles taught in our nation's colleges of godless education.
85% of children from twice weekly church attending evangelical homes **fail** to be active in their faith two years after graduation from their godless government indoctrination camp. Homeschooler, by the way, are 95% active.
The seeds sown by the parents ( the MOST IMPORTANT seeds) are crushed in the godless government schools and there are plenty of clueless Christian teachers agree with, cooperating with, and actually doing the trampling.
Shame on them!
Ironic that, in a post accusing me of “attacking” you and not sticking to the issue, you would choose to attack. You’ve done this throughout this thread, by the way—a bit hypocritical on your part. And it’s here for all to see. So, when you talk about attacks, I suggest you take care of that beam in your own eye first.
You, who would accuse me and other Christian teachers of being mindless dupes, evil, useful idiots—You know nothing of me, save what I’ve written here, and what I’ve written here suggests nothing of that with which you would seek to impugn my character. If you’ve read my recent posts, then you know how I deal with my students. It is apparent, though, that you are quickly dismissive of all opinions/ideas foreign to your own (or simply choose to ignore them), as the post to which I refer occurred earlier today.
Since you can’t tell (or choose to not want to know) by my writing where I am coming from, then there is no point in communicating further with you. You simply lack the kind of thoughtfulness and discernment one ought to expect from someone who says how much s/he cares about souls. I’ve communicated at length my views, have developed them with fairly sound reasoning (including FROM SCRIPTURE - something you have yet to do), demonstrated myself to be just as concerned as you about the souls of folks (putting my money where my mouth is by going in to spiritual battle every day—while you offer up “I’m drawing attention to the issue”—Wow! Such dedication! Such devotion to the cause! So giving of yourself!) And you persist in hurling your lame accusations and play your single, hostile note.
Perhaps you would do well to read the following and see if this sounds familiar (1Cor. 2:12-16).
You you you.
What can I say?
“What can I say?”
At this point, it is probably best that you try to say as little as possible. You and your lack of spiritual discernment of this issue has, at this point, BECOME the issue.
Again: You you you
But...I am certain that in all the godless government classrooms in this nation, government teachers would **never** make a political discussion personal. ( **Especially** Christian government teachers) This would be child abuse considering the immaturity of the child. And...I have full faith that our Marxist dominated colleges of education teach this the fundamental principle.
“...I am certain that in all the godless government classrooms in this nation, government teachers would **never** make a political discussion personal.”
I refer you (yes, YOU, YOU, YOU) to Rom 8:5-8
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
It is difficult to have a discussion about education when nearly all responses are directed at the quality of my character.
But...I have full faith that these debating tactics are never seen in our government schools whether taught by Christians or godless secularists.
Perhaps, you neglect to think about how difficult it is to have a discussion with someone who thinks, acts, talks like the person below. In case you do not recognize them, these are all quotes from your posts on this thread. After reading, you may want to go find a book on “debating tactics,” as you really don’t have any except to name-call, hurl wild accusations (the same ones over and over, by the way), and generally, have great difficulty making any kind of response to the meat of MY posts. Perhaps, the nuns who instructed you, slapped you too hard on the back of the hand when they were teaching you (or, maybe not hard enough, hard to say). At any rate, I let the record speak for itself. Your “faith” is in a worldly, carnal, fleshly and altogether simplistic view of solving the disaster of our public schools: shut them down/everyone who works there and everything that goes on there is evil/anathema to God. I espouse the view that holds to the idea that this hopelessly flawed institution, like the world itself will not be remade until Christ returns. In the meantime, those of us who are Christians have a duty, an obligation, and the privilege to serve the Master where He chooses to place us. I choose to obey Him in bringing my Christian testimony to bear at my place of work in a way that is both keeping with the laws of the land and in proclaiming His Truth, whether in word or in deed. I know My Savior is pleased. I know I am laying up treasures in Heaven. I know that what I do, I do in His strength and by His Spirit. That you cannot see this, cannot allow for this speaks of a lack of spiritual discernment—I can account for your dull responses in no other way.
Here are your quotes:
The seeds sown by the parents ( the MOST IMPORTANT seeds) are crushed in the godless government schools and there are plenty of clueless Christian teachers agree with, cooperating with, and actually doing the trampling.
However.... I am **certain**, though, since that professional government teachers would **never** use this emotionally abusive and manipulative debating tactic in their godless classrooms with their educationally and socially immature students. I am certain that this is one of the more important teaching principles taught in our nation’s colleges of godless education.
I don”t need to do any trampling. The godless Marxists, the Marxist curriculum and Marxist controlled textbooks ( that Christian teachers gleefully implement and handout) are doing more than enough trampling. If anyone is doing the trampling of seeds, it is the Christian teachers who willingly seek, support, uphold, and establish the godless government indoctrination centers. These “seeds” are thoroughly seeped in atheist sewage but Christian teachers have no scruples about force feeding it to the captive children.
And....The very **worst** thing Christian government teachers do is set a bad example for naive and inexperienced parents.
Should Christians in any way be supporting, establishing, and opening the doors on this evil every school day? If they want to keep their godless job, they must. If they have been working for any time at all, they already have.
Truth: Those who establish, support, uphold, and open the door on these institutions are supporting and cooperating with evil. In many ways comparisons can be made to abortion workers. People who would do this are either evil, stupid, or clueless ( Useful Idiots). This is truth. What other rational terms can be applied here?
Is it possible that Christian teachers claiming, “I feel **called** to teach captive children to think and reason godlessly in godless government schools” is not about being “called”? Do you think it is possible that they might be**lying**? (gasp!)Could it possibly (... just possibly...) be the “calling” of a pay check, generous vacations, great benefits, and an outstanding pension?I guess if Christian teachers are going to support and establish evil they might as well get paid 30 pieces of silver for doing it.
I think the people who knowingly ( evil people) or stupidly or cluelessly ( useful idiots) do this are aiding and abetting evil. I passionately believe that they should not do this children who captive in these indoctrination centers and under the threat of police and court action if they do not attend.
Fact: Government schools are run by principals, superintendents, teachers, and support personnel. If these people chose not to cooperate, the godless schools would close tomorrow. Therefore....Christians who willingly choose to seek work with the godless government schools are cooperating, supporting, and establishing the godless philosophy the child must learn to get along in the school.
For a Christian teacher to do this, is my opinion, evil, stupid, or clueless. While I may feel Christlike love for this person in the same way that I might for an abortionist, I don’t want them for a friend. I don’t think it is wise to bring them into my innermost circles of relationships.
I think it is an abomination for Christian teachers to support, establish, run, open the doors on, or cooperate in any manner with it.
It is an abomination for Christian to sneak in their Christian worldview and FORCE it onto the non-Christian and government captive children in their classrooms.Gee!....When reading the Bible I don’t see Christ using the force of law to herd citizens into any government run facility so that they can be **forced** to hear His word.
My conclusion: It is evil to teach a child to think and reason godlessly. Government teachers must do this if they are to keep their job. Any Christian teacher who has worked more than a little time in the government schools has done this. They do it every time they hand out a godless textbook, follow the godless curriculum, and hand out godless assignments, and treat Christianity as if it were just another point of view.
Personally....I have made a decision. I will not have a government school worker for a friend. They are too evil, too stupid, or too much of a Useful Idiot to be my friend. I feel the same about abortion workers as well. This is a **personal** decision. Each much make that decision, or not, for themselves.
The facts accuse them. That is exactly what they are doing if they teach in a godless school. They are cooperating with, establishing, and supporting schools that teach children to think and reason godlessly.
Rational Opinion: A Christian working in a government school is like a Christian working in an abortuary, except the eternal risks for the child who is taught to think and reason godlessly is infinitely worse!
And....One of the worst things a Christian teacher does is beguile naive parents into believing their child’s godless school can’t be that bad.
The truth of these statements are self-evident to those with a discerning mind and heart.
Fact: Fundamentally, government schools are a godless, socialist, single payer, and compulsory entitlement.
Fact: The children who attend these godless government schools must think and reason godlessly just to cooperate in the godless classroom, godless curriculum, godless school policies, and godless home assignments. How can it be otherwise?
Fact: The children who attend these socialist-funded schools risk learning to be comfortable with socialism. If the voting mob can give them tuition-free school, why not use the voting mob to get **lots** of “free” stuff. Again, how could it be otherwise?
Fact: Teaching children to think and reason godlessly is utterly incompatible with Christian principles and belief. When Christian teachers willingly seek jobs in government schools they willingly agree to support, uphold, and establish the overall agenda of the godless school which is godlessness. How could it be otherwise?
Fact: Putting children at risk of learning to be social parasites and learning to be comfortable with socialism is in complete contradiction to conservative belief. Yet....So-called “conservative” teachers agree to do that if they are to keep their jobs. How could it possibly be otherwise?
My opinion: Christian and conservative teachers risk being an poor example to naive parents. If sweet Mrs. Honey Bun, the minister's wife, teaches in the godless and socialist entitlement schools, then parents may wrongly conclude that their local godless indoctrination camp can't be that bad. ( It is **that**bad!)
My opinion: Christians and conservative teachers who attempt to sneak in Christian and conservative principles into their classrooms are doing two things:
1) They are teaching children that conservatives and Christians are sneaky.
2) They are imposing their religious and political worldview on captive children who are literally government prisoners whose parents may be in complete disagreement with the conservative or Christian teacher. Last I read, Jesus never **forced** his Gospel on state captives.
Solution: Begin the process of rescuing our nation's children from these abominable cesspools of socialism and godlessness.
1) Conservatives please remove your children. Starve the beast.
2) Conservative and Christian teachers use you talent to open private schools.
3) Work toward complete separation of school and state.
“Fact: The children who attend these godless government schools must think and reason godlessly just to cooperate in the godless classroom, godless curriculum, godless school policies, and godless home assignments. How can it be otherwise?”
Not Fact but Fiction: Children do not have to think and reason godlessly. It can be that with Godly teachers in the classroom, Godly thinking and reasoning can be encouraged and supported. Therefore it CAN be otherwise.
Fact: The children who attend these socialist-funded schools risk learning to be comfortable with socialism.
Not Fact but Fiction: Given the right kind of teacher (a Christian teacher, for example...but even a non-believing conservative teacher), children can learn of the inherent risks of socialism and its failure wherever it has been practiced. Therefore it CAN be otherwise.
“Fact: ...When Christian teachers willingly seek jobs in government schools they willingly agree to support, uphold, and establish the overall agenda of the godless school which is godlessness. How could it be otherwise?”
Not Fact but Fiction: When Christian teachers willingly seek jobs in government schools they can (and do) willingly agree to teach kids to think for themselves. In so doing, they may actually be empowering students to question the very nature of public education to consider for themselves the extent of its effectiveness (or lack thereof). Therefore, it CAN be otherwise.
“Fact: Putting children at risk of learning to be social parasites and learning to be comfortable with socialism is in complete contradiction to conservative belief. Yet....So-called “conservative” teachers agree to do that if they are to keep their jobs. How could it possibly be otherwise?”
Not Fact but Fiction: Conservative teachers/Christian teachers do not agree to put children at risk by teaching them to learn how to be comfortable with socialism. Conservative teachers/Christian teachers teach students to think for themselves and will ensure that the teaching of conservative values and America’s religious traditions are adequately presented in the classroom. These teachers trust that their effective teaching alone will result in student learning which, they trust, will promote job security. Therefore, it CAN be otherwise.
“My opinion: Christian and conservative teachers risk being an poor example to naive parents.”
Fact: Your opinion is naive, not supported by any evidence and derogatory to Christian and conservative teachers with whom you apparently have little or no direct contact. It is equally condescending to parents with whom you apparently disagree.
“My opinion: Christians and conservative teachers who attempt to sneak in Christian and conservative principles into their classrooms are doing two things:
1) They are teaching children that conservatives and Christians are sneaky.
2) They are imposing their religious and political worldview on captive children who are literally government prisoners whose parents may be in complete disagreement with the conservative or Christian teacher. Last I read, Jesus never **forced** his Gospel on state captives.”
Fact: Your opinion of Christian teachers (calling them “sneaks”) is unfounded. The teaching of America’s Christian heritage, while not often taught by non-Christians, is well within America’s curricula. No one has to do any sneaking. Additionally, conducting oneself as a Christian in the classroom is perfectly legal (for instance, our school begins each day with a moment of silence—I bow my head as we do so). The teaching of America’s religious heritage, the religious inclinations found in, say, The Scarlet Letter or Hamlet (two works I am currently teaching) is not imposing religion on captives. It is teaching two great works of literature. If you are familiar with these works, you would say, “How could it be otherwise!”
Well said !!!!!! (#39)
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