Swedish physicists run the site Ecat.com

Ny Teknik ^ | Nov 18 2011 | Mats Lewan

[Kevmo]

Swedish physicists run the site Ecat.com
Av: Mats Lewan
Publicerad igår, 14:04
UPDATED. Four Swedish entrepreneurs, two of them particle physicists, run the site Ecat.com which since a couple of days takes pre-orders for Andrea Rossi’s E-cat. Ny Teknik got an interview”.



Ny Teknik can now confirm that a British company, Hydrofusion, is behind the website Ecat.com which launched with full content on November 16, 2011”.

The site was anonymous at launch, but Andrea Rossi, the inventor of the E-cat, stated that the website represented his North Europe commercial branch”.

Hydrofusion is run by four Swedish entrepreneurs – CEO Magnus Holm, Niclas Sandström who is operations manager in the UK, sales manager Peter La Terra and Stefan Helgesson who is a web strategist”.

Magnus Holm has a D.Tech and Niclas Sandström a PhD in elementary particle physics at Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenburg”.

NyT: Magnus Holm, what is the purpose of the site Ecat.com?
Holm: “The aim is to be a portal to all stakeholders regarding the E-cat. In particular, we want to be as officially linked to Rossi as possible in order to capture as much commercial interest as possible through Ecat.com.”
NyT: What is your contract with Andrea Rossi?
Holm: “I can’t go into details yet”“.

NyT: Why did you start this venture?
Holm: “I had noticed the discussion on Rossi at the end of 2010. I usually laugh at most of what is called “free energy”, but the difference with cold fusion is that it definitely is an exothermic reaction (it releases energy if it happens). So we followed the test in Bologna in January 2011 on the web. And when Ny Teknik started to report, we began to look seriously at it. Then when Kullander and Essén wrote their report from Bologna in March, it had become so likely that it was real that we decided to start a venture. There was too much supporting it – all researchers who actually looked at the technology thought that it worked.”
NyT: What did you do then?
Holm: “We started by developing a web strategy in order to sell these products online.”
NyT: How did you get in touch with Rossi?
Holm: “We met him at the Defkalion press conference in Athens, Greece, in June 2011 and then booked a meeting with him later on. We had already tried to contact Defkalion which at that time had a contract with Rossi, but never received a response. Then we met with Rossi in Uppsala in July and told him about our plans and he thought it sounded interesting. Eventually we got a verbal agreement and later a letter of intent. In the meantime, we built a structure on the web.”
NyT: There is great skepticism about Rossi’s technology. How do comment on that?
Holm: “Until he makes an independent test, there is obviously a small chance that it does not work. We are willing to take that risk because it’s such an amazing technology if it works. Further support that it’s real comes from the fact that all independent physicists who have observed the tests are positive, and have expressed belief in the mechanism. I do not have much sympathy for the crowd of skeptics who insist in spending substantial time and energy, just to be able to boast a ‘what did I say’ if it should turn out to be wrong.”
NyT: How is this different from other things you are skeptical to?
Holm: “There are so many quacks in all subjects but often it shines through. Quacks know nothing, they learn a few words but they are not even mathematically consistent. But if a person comes with a theory, sets up his axioms, does the math correctly, then it is proper research and have the right to come forward.”
NyT: You have already been accused of contributing to fraud. What is your comment?
Holm: “We are not engaged in any deception, and I do not think Rossi is engaged in any fraud either. If it would turn out that it does not work, in spite of everything, I would think it is about self-deception. I believe it works. It seems strange that Focardi who has done research in this area for over 15 years and helped Rossi for four years, might have measured wrong during the entire period. It seems unlikely. However, this does of course not mean that you’ll obtain a final product that works. But fraud requires intent and I think that can be excluded. Rossi does not talk about advance of money, which could lead to suspicions of fraud. Perhaps he could deliver a product that does not work and then you can end up in schism on that, but this does not mean fraud. From our side there is in any case no attempt of fraud.”
NyT: How will you ensure that the products work before you sell them?
Holm: “This is a difficult question as it’s Rossi’s responsibility that the product works. We only act as agents. But because there are powerful forces who want to argue that it’s all about fraud, we will make one or more of the following to prove our honesty”.

1. Explain the risk with such a premature product to the customer and ensure that customers are forced only to take a minimal financial risk”.

2. Try to arrange a complete product testing before any payment is made”.

3. Ensure that all payments are done through an escrow account with a full refund if the products do not meet the specifications”.

4. Through potential funding move the financial risk from the customer to Hydrofusion”.

5. Arrange an independent reactor test as a reference that in all cases the core process works”.

The real risk is only with the first product sales. Rossi will have to correct until the first product is operating and it will then be a reference. When the first product works, the risk with the next one is greatly reduced.”
NyT: You are now taking pre-orders. When do you think you can offer commercial products?
Holm: “It's hard to say, but if the core technology works it should be possible to start mass production within one to two years. Test products can be delivered very soon, though.”
NyT: When do you think rival products will arrive?
Holm: “I think it will explode sooner or later. In a best case for Rossi, I think it takes three years from when he has serial products on the market. In a worst case it takes two to three years from now. Then he will compete against the others now. And in that case, if he doesn't have commercial products on the market within two to three years, the one with the best product and the best marketing resources will win the market, especially for consumer products. For industrial products a good network is also important to quickly gain market.”
NyT: Which do you expect to be the first applications?
Holm: “Energy in district heating systems and desalination of water. After that electricity generation on a large scale. For consumer products, security requirements are completely different and also requirements for reliability to avoid that service costs go out of control, so they will arrive further ahead.”
NyT: Whathas the response been so far?
Holm: “Far better than expected”“.

- - - -
UPDATE: Members of the Hydrofusion team were present at the October 6 test of the Ecat and the October 28 test of the heat plant. They also met with Rossi for a private demonstration of the Ecat at the end of July”.

- - - -
READ MORE: Our complete coverage on Rossi's E-cat can be found here“.

FAKTA The E-cat
The 'energy catalyzer' is loaded with nickel powder and a number of secret catalysts and is pressurized with hydrogen gas. Excess heat is possibly produced via an unknown nuclear reaction, involving nickel and hydrogen”.

Several semipublic tests have been made to demonstrate the release of net energy but no independent tests have yet been done”.

On October 28, 2011, a heat plant composed by 107 Ecat modules was tested by an anonymous customer. In a report the customer claimed a released net power of 479 kW in self sustained mode”.

[exDemMom]

***In order to prove it a fraud. One way or the other, it’s going to come to a head.

Spending money on a fraudulent device is beyond stupid.

Scammers don't make money by selling their scams to people and daring them to prove the scam; they make money by fooling people into believing their scams are the real deal.

In any case, it is not up to me to prove that Rossi's device isn't a scam--it's up to him to prove it is real.

[exDemMom]

Kevmo almost certainly IS Rossi... or his mom. Either way, he has clearly shown, for a long time, that he is VERY interested in urging others to buy Rossi’s... “invention”.

Kevmo claims to have already made money off of cold fusion. In reality, he describes making money by betting on cold fusion at Intrade, a gambling website. I think he's actually trying to gin up interest in betting at Intrade; whether or not cold fusion exists is irrelevant, as long as people bet either way.

[Kevmo]

it’s up to him to prove it is real.
***Then the wait&see approach should suit you. Rossi says his proof will be in customer satisfaction, not in peer reviewed studies.

[Moonman62]

Then the wait&see approach should suit you.

If it weren't for the constant Rossi spam you put out, that would work.

[Kevmo]

This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

[7MMmag]

This;

"...but do nothing about the guys who leave behind worthless defecation and tons of classic fallacies & personal attacks."

is not exactly true. They did get you to stop the insulting birdy nonsense, didn't they?

... but you are part right still.
They "do nothing" about that steaming pile of your paste-up job, opening comment. Not that I'm complaining about "moderators" around here...

I'd be willing to keep stepping over the front porch, opening comment, open latrine you keep insisting upon doing your business in (since the moderators around here are not in the business of correcting or refereeing shades of "logical fallacy", nor do they police personal insult, save on the religion forum, and that most usually, only at report of abuse) but I must point out that instead of continuing worrying about what the little birdies do-doo in the yard (and whining about the "birdies" being "accommodated") clean off the front porch first, quit loading it with stinking piles, from the get-go, if you want people to take your 'complaints' seriously.

People are quite free to come and squawk, "it's a fraud", no matter whether it irritates you to no end, or not.

My objections here were spurred by your own commission of "classic logical fallacy" in saying,

add two particle physicists to the circle of supposed conspirators.

for reasons I've already mentioned. They are putting a bet down, but one carefully hedged. Their wager can not be pointed to as proof.

Nobody has said the Swiss were part of some conspiracy to defraud, either...so for you to attempt to add them, is fallacious on that point alone. You cannot use them to enlarge the platform from which you use as a footing to jeer at critics and skeptics.

Accusing me of having committed some sort of unidentified error, is just so much noise, an attempt to distract from having it pointed out that your opening monologue, though having some truth behind it, has become a strawman argument itself, due to how you stretch & distort the information. Things are not as simple, all down the list, as you try to put them.

The Swiss, and how you tried to use them in the same fashion, was fairly typical of such distortions, and was the last straw for me.

Don't expect to come out swinging, spoiling for confrontation, then expect some "moderator" come ride to your rescue, when people around here give your own beak a twist. You should know by now, that's not it works.

This could all be laughable enough, if not for the appearance that this all, this whole FR Ecat thread biz, has become something of a psychologically burdensome stone for you.

[Kevmo]

Kevmo: “...but do nothing about the guys who leave behind worthless defecation and tons of classic fallacies & personal attacks.”
7MM: is not exactly true. They did get you to stop the insulting birdy nonsense, didn’t they?
***You’re none too bright, are you? My point was that the mods are only hands off with the seagulls and you reinforce it by saying that they got me to stop chasing seagulls.

[Kevmo]

Nobody has said the Swiss were part of some conspiracy to defraud, either...so for you to attempt to add them, is fallacious on that point alone.
***Your moonboy seagull compadre says otherwise.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=25#25

[7MMmag]

***You’re none too bright, are you? My point was that the mods are only hands off with the seagulls and you reinforce it by saying that they got me to stop chasing seagulls.

Oh, I got the point, wa-ay back, many threads ago, when you first had included in your Ecat threads, a series of online self-pity parties, whining about the very same thing. You ran around repeating loudly [some form of] 'unfair, unfair' until it trailed of to you mumbling about it, and you keep that up, to this day.

Yeah, I get the point, but it's an obtuse one. Dense, even.

You just don't get it? After all this time as a registered at FR, you still don't understand the why's and wherefore's of the whole enchilada? Ok. maybe you're too close. Time to step away from the taco sauce...

Is your pride in your own hand-crafted tortillas so over-weening that you must continue with this defense mechanism? Apparently so...

It's either that, something along those lines, or you're not as smart as I'd otherwise prefer to give you credit for.

Which is it? You tell me.

Perhaps you actually could consider the possibility that there was nothing much wrong, or "unfair" at you being asked to "knock it off" in no uncertain terms. Can you do that?

What do you have to lose, but something which is decidedly NOT making you feel good. It's causing unhappiness. It's not needed or helpful to you or others. All you have to do is admit to yourself you've been misguided in your emotions and thoughts concerning that incident. Forgive yourself, and let it go. Then that miserable mist that has been clouding the morning, will get burned off with the warmth of the midday sun. You'll look up after a short while, and it will be gone...

But you will notice that a ill-defined, but noticable sense of unease will have been lifted from you. You might not even have noticed that you'd been carrying it around, until it LEAVES, then you'll notice, and feel wonderfully at peace about things, and re-invigorated.

[7MMmag]

***Your moonboy seagull compadre says otherwise.

First, he's not my "compadre".

Secondly, the thread you point at which has his comment, was made a day AFTER my posting to you "Nobody has said they were part of a conspiracy". Does that mean now, you're going to include them? That would be pathetic, and if you are trying to make a list of those whom have alleged witnessed the device, and approve of it, they, these Swiss fellows in question here, are disqualified from eligibility from that list of yours, for reasons I've spelled out repeatedly to you, but which you have so far, rudely ignored.
They've never seen the thing in person, either. They say they believe, but hedge their bet, even as they are trying to set themselves up to supposedly as go-betweens in selling it, leaving all responsibility of the device actually working or not, all on both the buyer, and Rossi.

[Kevmo]

Oh, I got the point, wa-ay back, many threads ago,
***If you got the point you would not have written what you wrote, which reinforced what I write.

[Kevmo]

You just don’t get it? After all this time as a registered at FR, you still don’t understand the why’s and wherefore’s of the whole enchilada? Ok. maybe you’re too close. Time to step away from the taco sauce... Is your pride in your own hand-crafted tortillas so over-weening that you must continue with this defense mechanism? Apparently so...
***This little sidetrack does nothing for this pursuit of LENR facts.

[Kevmo]

It’s either that, something along those lines, or you’re not as smart as I’d otherwise prefer to give you credit for. Which is it? You tell me.
***False dilemma. Classic fallacy.

Perhaps you actually could consider the possibility that there was nothing much wrong, or “unfair” at you being asked to “knock it off” in no uncertain terms. Can you do that?
***I have considered the possibility. It is not the case.

What do you have to lose, but something which is decidedly NOT making you feel good. It’s causing unhappiness. It’s not needed or helpful to you or others. All you have to do is admit to yourself you’ve been misguided in your emotions and thoughts concerning that incident.
***What kind of psychobabble nonsense is this?

Forgive yourself, and let it go. Then that miserable mist that has been clouding the morning, will get burned off with the warmth of the midday sun. You’ll look up after a short while, and it will be gone...
***Maybe this stream-of-consciousness bowlsheet belongs on DU. Would you consider that? I know the lurkers do.

But you will notice that a ill-defined, but noticable sense of unease will have been lifted from you. You might not even have noticed that you’d been carrying it around, until it LEAVES, then you’ll notice, and feel wonderfully at peace about things, and re-invigorated.
***MEGO—Mine Eyes Glaze Over. Nice Lucy pic. Your advice is worth about the same as hers, except that I wouldn’t pay a nickel for it.

[Kevmo]

Secondly, the thread you point at which has his comment, was made a day AFTER my posting to you “Nobody has said they were part of a conspiracy”.
***But it is representative of his seagull conspiracy widening comments.

[Kevmo]

if you are trying to make a list of those whom have alleged witnessed the device, and approve of it, they, these Swiss fellows in question here, are disqualified from eligibility from that list of yours, for reasons I’ve spelled out repeatedly to you, but which you have so far, rudely ignored.
***It sounds like whatever case you made for disqualification wasn’t even worth reading. You seem to think that just because you put it down in writing that your case is made — that is not so. If you can’t write well enough such that someone even bothers to read your stuff, let alone try to show disagreement with it, then that is your problem.

[Kevmo]

They’ve never seen the thing in person, either.
***You don’t have good reading comprehension, I see.

They say they believe, but hedge their bet,
***The usual approach of scientists

even as they are trying to set themselves up to supposedly as go-betweens in selling it, leaving all responsibility of the device actually working or not, all on both the buyer, and Rossi.
***There is nothing out of the ordinary here. Focusing on it in such a way doesn’t make it so.

[CodeToad]

Just more of Kevmo's blog postings he's trying to pass off as news.

[bvw]

The first worm of this kind appears to have been launched Tuesday morning by Magnus Holm, a Norwegian Ruby programmer who uses the Twitter handle @judofyr. His post contained only a link, which had the embedded command “onmouseover,” a JavaScript command that caused the link to be automatically Tweeted by anyone whose mouse cursor touched it. In an e-mail, Mr. Holm said he created the worm “because I wanted to experiment with the flaw,” which he says was already being exploited by others. “The purpose was simply to see if it was possible to create a worm.”

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/twitter-hacked-tuesday-morning/

[7MMmag]

***If you got the point you would not have written what you wrote, which reinforced what I write.

The person you are primarily fooling in statements like the above is yourself.

Read Becker's Pulitzer Prize winning "Denial of Death" to gain better understanding of where I'm coming from, in regards to the pathological tendencies I've been discussing. The pathology is not yours alone, but as I've previously hinted at, quite common and only all too human...

You've been posturing yourself (here on FR) as something of an 'heroic figure'. By your own telling, you are beset by enemies (who made of lessor 'stuff' than yourself) and treated unfairly by the only, shall we say --- regulatory powers that be.

"...it is not that children are vicious, selfish, or domineering. It is that they so openly express man's tragic destiny: he must des­perately justify himself as an object of primary value in the uni­verse; he must stand out, be a hero, make the biggest possible con­tribution to world life, show that he counts more than anything or anyone else."

"...It doesn't matter whether the cultural hero-system is frankly magical, religious, and primitive or secular, scientific, and civilized. It is still a mythical hero-system in which people serve in order to earn a feeling of primary value, of cosmic specialness, of ultimate usefulness to creation, of unshakable meaning."

from Select Quotes from “The Denial of Death” by Ernest Becker

The fear of death, and the subsequent vital lies as Becker called them, which man tells himself in denial of this fear, even the fear of being diminished in rank within a group, and/or in personal one-to-one interactions --- it appears to me you are a captive of, due to the attachment to Rossi and this possible scientific advancement.

The attachment, the emotional investment being one of transference in this instance, to gain and take part in "the heroic", for by the heralding and defense of the "science", your fate and standing (personal reputation) stands to gain, to take part in this transcendence, this new victory, this possible immortalization.

It's no wonder really, you become upset when your own inner narrative concerning what is occurring here is challenged. You must deny that my own words to you, mean not what I myself intended them to mean and further explained them to mean, but must mean instead something lessor, something small-minded and simple. For to contemplate that multiple others have witnessed the same tendency, this same "transference" and it's psychological ramifications, is too much, for it means accepting a small death, a possible diminishing of standing. For not only has a weakness been exposed, but you have been also caught frantically denying the same.

[Kevmo]

So... more psychobabble baloney. Too bad you didn’t read up on LENR rather than this nonsense. We all would have better off.