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To: Johnny B.
"I'm sorry, I thought you understood this stuff."

I do "understand this stuff". I was making and measuring radioisotopes (probably) before you were out of diapers.

"63Cu and 65Cu are both naturally-occurring isotopes of Copper. Their presence doesn't prove, or even suggest, that there was any type of nuclear process involved. This is entirely consistent with Rossi mixing some Nickel powder with some Copper powder and some Iron powder, using nothing more sophisticated than a kitchen scale."

Yes, they "are" naturally occurring. But if they appear in a sample that was originally pure nickel, they "do" provide evidence of a nuclear process. As do the ELEMENTAL ANALYSES done by Miley.

Kullander thinks they provide such proof:

"Two of the copper isotopes detected were Cu63 and Cu65. Kullander has stated this is proof of nuclear reactions taking place in the reactor.

"Your quote (it would have been appropriate to include a link) doesn't mention anything about the isotope ratio of the elements. The article I posted (to which I did include a link) stated that the isotope ratio of both the Nickel and Copper were identical to those found in nature."

Sorry, but I was in a rush this AM to get to work. The reply (and link) you provided merely made the statement that statement that the ratio was "identical to that found in nature". No data, no composition numbers, nothing other than the statement. And made by someone other than those that did the work.

URL:

http://pesn.com/2011/04/07/9501805_Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Validated_by_Swedish_Skeptics_Society/

Neither your information or my information is sufficient to make an informed judgment. What needs to be found (if available) is the actual report that Essen/Kullander generated. Or at least something that provides more detail.

"Come back when you understand the difference between an element and an isotope, and when you can explain how Rossi can claim to be "enhancing" the Nickel isotope ratios, and claim to be "transmuting" Nickel into Copper, without making any changes to the natural isotope ratio.

I've understood the difference between element and isotope since grade school. And I have no idea how Rossi might be enriching the nickel, or even that he "is" enriching it. I think some of what Rossi says is deliberate misdirection. You think due to a scam.....I think to throw any competitors off on wild-goose chases.

231 posted on 11/18/2011 3:06:12 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

“Yes, they “are” naturally occurring. But if they appear in a sample that was originally pure nickel, they “do” provide evidence of a nuclear process. As do the ELEMENTAL ANALYSES done by Miley.”

LMAO.....Really?


234 posted on 11/18/2011 3:23:00 PM PST by dila813
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To: Wonder Warthog
Yes, they "are" naturally occurring. But if they appear in a sample that was originally pure nickel, they "do" provide evidence of a nuclear process. As do the ELEMENTAL ANALYSES done by Miley.
The analysis could not support any conclusion about where the samples came from. It was reported that Rossi supplied them (maybe in a brown paper bag, for all we know).

If Rossi put pure Nickel into the E-Cat, ran it for two months, and the sample came out with Copper and Iron, then it's evidence of fusion.

However, there is no evidence of this happening (other than Rossi's unsubstantiated claim). It is just as plausible that Rossi simply added some Copper and Iron to the Nickel. There is no way for any analysis to exclude that, although the claim that the sample contained only natural ratios of Ni and Cu does support the possibility that the sample was simply a mixture of elements from a chemistry set.

Now, if the sample did contain non-natural ratios of any of the elements (as it must if fusion is actually occurring), then there would be evidence of fusion going on. It would be much more difficult and expensive for Rossi to fake that.

Notice that no one is accusing Miley of faking his results. In part, that's because Miley's analysis does show changes in the isotope ratios, which I understand has been the hallmark of every seemingly successful LENR test.

Neither your information or my information is sufficient to make an informed judgment. What needs to be found (if available) is the actual report that Essen/Kullander generated. Or at least something that provides more detail.
The article I referenced (LINK) is NyTeknik, which I believe is an acceptable source for Rossi fans, and it directly quotes Sven Kullander, who I believe is also an acceptable source for Rossi fans.

As usual with Rossi, he won't release the actual data, so this is all we have to work with.

I think some of what Rossi says is deliberate misdirection.
So we agree that Rossi is lying about the E-Cat. Explain to me again how we should be believing everything he says (such as the "ash" sample he supplied really was transmuted in his E-Cat), while at the same time accepting that he is lying about it?

By the way, does it cause you the slightest concern that Rossi's new European partner is also selling a perpetual motion machine? I think that would shake my confidence a bit.

235 posted on 11/18/2011 3:47:59 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
One additional thought:
http://pesn.com/2011/04/07/9501805_Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Validated_by_Swedish_Skeptics_Society/
Do you have any idea how many scams have been presented as the "real thing" on pesn.com?!? That site is a sewer of every crooked and incompetent fool who thinks he has discovered perpetual motion and thinks he can get some bigger fool to give him millions to buy the secret!

In case you missed it, here is a like to a story by Rossi partner and pesn.com's own Sterling D. Allan where he breathlessly extols the wonders of Tilly's self-powering car:

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/tilley_article.pdf
Note that Allan reports successful tests, complete with an expert observing, that prove the Tilley motor could not be powered by conventional means. He also mentions skeptics, but dismisses them because Tilley isn't collecting money from customer, so there's no possibility of a scandal.

Why in the world would anyone take this man or his web site seriously? The fact that Rossi has teamed up with Allan, as well as the European company mentioned in another thread that is also "selling" a perpetual motion electric generator, is the most damning evidence yet that he is nothing but a con man.

236 posted on 11/18/2011 4:09:04 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog
I do "understand this stuff". I was making and measuring radioisotopes (probably) before you were out of diapers.
SCORE=For an Adult, Lame, keep in mind, it's my mistake that I assumed you were an adult! We're going to need a parent teacher conference for Wonder Weinerdog
We also would have accepted, before you were even a gleam in your mother's eyes.

So there! and your adopted momma wears combat boots! Too funny, I feel like I'm an elementary school, my highest level of learning achieved.

 

So, you need a heart transplant, right before they put you out, you find out your Doctor's degree is fraudulent, do you continue on?

On these elements being tested, are we sure the nickel he submitted is what he puts in his device? Are we sure the second elements are from a reactor that was running or even near one of his reactors.

Don't tell me he had two boxes, one marked before and the other marked after that he had assayed?

And, if he did, people bought this? Please tell me there is a clear chain of evidence here.

So far, none of the Rossi fanboys have any response to the factory he said he had in Ferrara that he used his old design Ecat to heat this factory for a year, where's that Ecat??? Since Ecats shown early this year are the L shaped ones like in his patent, why isn't he showing it off; if a tiny piece of equipment can heat his factory, imagine what the new and improved Ecat can do? What did this factory produce anyway, that is before it burned down? This seems to happen to him a lot. Didn't his factory in the states that was supposed to be producing super efficient TE devices burn?

The Ferrara Factory burned down.

Is it just me or do we have to pretty much depend on the honesty and integrity of Rossi (and his goombahs)as the sole sources of information?

At least Rossi has a new more trustworthy spokesman than Sterling Allan:

From: DOD Fuel Cell.

...Leonardo Technologies, Inc. LTI was incorporated as a response to the thermoelectric power generation research by Dr. Andre Rossi. Dr. Rossi indicated that his devices would produce 20 percent efficiencies, a vast increase from the current science of 4 percent conversion of waste heat to electrical power. Dr. Rossi believed that he could increase the physical size of the TE Devices and maintain superior power generation. In furtherance of his research, in early 2000, LTI, Rossi's company, not the military had tests conducted at the University of New Hampshire (UNH), Durham, NH, using a small scale LTI TE Device. Over a period of 7 days, the UNH power plant staff recorded voltage and amperage readings every 1/2 hr. The TE Device produced approximately 100 volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power. After this initial 6 ERDC/CERL TR-04-20 success, and a fire that destroyed his Manchester, NH location, Dr. Rossi returned to Italy to continue the manufacture of the TE Devices. In Italy, Dr. Rossi believed that LTI could manufacture more cost-effective TE generating devices with lower labor and assembly costs. Accordingly, Dr. Rossi engaged a subcontractor to fulfill the requirements of manufacturing and assembly.

The New Hampshire Factory Burned down

This is an excerpt from above:

LTI had tests conducted at the University of New Hampshire (UNH), Durham, NH, using a small scale LTI TE Device. Over a period of 7 days, the UNH power plant staff recorded voltage and amperage readings every 1/2 hr. The TE Device produced approximately 100 volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power.

In a, "Where Are They Now Vein", what happened to the 20% efficient TE devices Rossi created? Has he been able to make another?

Let's use Occams's Bic, what is more likely, Rossi created a TE that is 20% efficient compared to the normal 4% efficient ones.
OR,
Rossi gamed the test results in the college lab; keep in mind, LTI, Rossi's company was the one paying and supervising the tests, when the gov wanted to test them on their own equipment with their own scientists, a fire breaks out in Rossi's factory, (can you imagine what his fire insurance costs?).

Now,
1) either his devices worked which would be pretty impressive or
2) He somehow fudged the numbers and when interest got high and he realized he couldn't control the testing, poof, factory goes up in smoke. Now, normally, I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt BUT, are we supposed to believe:

1) The only working prototype was in that factory.
2) The design for that device was stored on a computer which went up in smoke.
3) He doesn't back up his systems and send data off site to a place like Iron Mountain? This means all his work, payroll records, permits filed, all contracts, they were all destroyed?
4) Rossi can't seem to now recall the secret that caused his TE device to have such high efficiency?
5) Where is his latest factory, does he have fire or arson insurance? So, on the TE device, if you look at the testing protocol it looks like it was designed by Rossi. We're in the 21st century, all he had to do to get a continuous flow of data was a few keystrokes and no, I seriously doubt it would fill up the hard drive. They have these things called networks now that allows you to put the monitoring laptop(s) on the network and be able to use almost unlimited storage.

Since this thing is supposed to be Nuclear, fission or fusion, either way, no one expects the NRC to do anything but use everything in their power to
A) shut it down, that's assuming the NRC is filled with Bama's fellow travelers who want us to live in the 18th century while they, our bettors, will manage what is good for us. Or
B) get their mits on this thing and create a regulation manual two feet high that has regulations that are impossible to meet? Assuming everything Rossi said is true, just getting past regulations in each country where one of these things is going to be put will take a generation, even with the right payoffs.

This is a good read:

New Energy times I

Again, we always hear about Rossi and his factories. Where are they, how many employees in each and what is he making?

I would love to see the state that other 'energy' promoters are in such as Dennis Lee and Joseph Newman, they must be so frustrated to see Rossi's scam work so well.

Finally, some information from respectable (mostly) journals:

New Energy Times I

Let's address some rumors:

There were reports that Rossi's mystery buyer were:

The U.S. Navy
SPAWAR
NI
According to these links, The U.S. Navy, SPAWAR or NI did not buy the plant: NI Statement via Forbes II.

University of Bologna Denies Faculty Involvement with Rossi

Here's an interesting quote from the, New Energy Time II  link.

...Sander Olson, a writer for Next Big Future, contacted me yesterday about the SPAWAR rumor.

“After having read your articles on E-CAT and receiving independent confirmation from SPAWAR that they are not taking possession of any device from Rossi,” Olson wrote, “I have decided that he is almost certainly a fraud and [I] will not pursue an interview. I always suspected that he was a fraud and I now find the evidence overwhelming. Thank you for providing assistance in this matter.”

Finally, Rossi does have a real degree: He earned a bachelor’s degree in 1973 in the philosophy of science and engineering from the University of Milan’s School of Philosophy.

247 posted on 11/18/2011 8:33:02 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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