sad but true...
Posted on 09/18/2011 1:41:55 PM PDT by decimon
San Ramon Valley Unified School District installs 10k photovoltaic panels at five schools
In a move that is proving to be controversial with some, some California school districts are looking to a high-tech way to save money, even if the payback won't be achieved until well over a decade later. CNN is reporting that some California school districts are looking to low-interest federal loans to install solar panels on schools.
CNN singled out the San Ramon Valley Unified School District, which has installed roughly 10,000 photovoltaic panels at five of its 35 total schools at a cost of $23 million. Under the most optimistic projections, the photovoltaic panels would offset energy usage at the schools by 67 to 75 percent.
According to spokesman Terry Koehne, the San Ramon Valley Unified School District will pay back the loans courtesy of the energy savings from using the solar installations. However, this won't be a quick payback for the school system -- it will take roughly 16 years to break even on the photovoltaic panels.
Koehne, however, points to the upside of embarking on this expensive venture; "It's pure profit after that. And following that, we're going to start realizing savings of $2 (million), $3 (million), $4 million a year."
(Excerpt) Read more at dailytech.com ...
B) the 550w is PEAK at optimal angles and fully rated efficiency; MAYBE 20% of the 12 hours gives peak output
C) other equipment costs not factored in: inverters, battery banks, switching gear, battery chargers, battery & equipment rooms
D) other costs not factored in: maintenance & replacement of batteries over the 16-20 years; labor costs cleaning the panels; replacement of damaged panels (hail; vandalism; accident—on stilts in parking lot; etc.)
E) natural and inevitable drops in panel efficiency over time
It was mainly C-E, though B also played a role, that dissuaded me from installing some for (mainly) lighting an unpowered barn vs running a line to it from the existing meter, which would allow not only lighting, but tool & equipment usage as well.
Salesmen and advocates (and bureaucrats) are great at using cherry picked figures & glossings over of details to effectively lie; but real figures for a real situation don't lie.
marktwain in post #30 has it right: more effective & cheaper than extending grid; and for critical & remote low power equipment. For most, to replace extant grid power, not so much...and we're at 9 cents/KWH, which makes them compare even worse.
Some companies do more marketing. Others do the best engineering (renegade engineers escaped from the plantation). Made in America.
sad but true...
so they'll get ~4 years free... thx
“Most powerful MPPT charge controller in North America” there, BTW.
In Concord, CA, ca1966 I drove a Post Office truck daily past Varian Aerograph. They had a large readerboard sign, stating that they were on the verge ('any day now!') of making a breakthrough that would make their solar cells cheap, efficient, and competitive with grid power.
Regularly, there were puff pieces in the Bay Area press about them, touting the same claims.
Now, 45 years later and counting, it still hasn't happened; and Varian is no longer in the solar cell business.
Yes, I hope to talk to some installers this week.
My first cut on this is it is not a good investment if the installation costs are more than about 20 percent of the total.
On a grid system, you don't have to have batteries or battery maintenance.
In Southern Arizona, I figure you get about the equivalent of six hours of full output per day, about 360 days a year, so we are nearly the best solar power place on earth.
I suspect the cost of "certified installers" will about offset the subsidies, and that might make it a worthwhile investment.
In the last 20 years, solar cell prices per watt have dropped about 70 percent. If they continue to do so, 20 years from now they will cost about 50 cents a watt. They would be a great investment at that price.
You don’t need batteries for many solar systems. Only if you are off the grid. The excess power (if) produce on weekends would go though the meter running it backward. You have a couple months in many schools where you don’t need A/C. During the summer months while schools are closed, it very possible that they would have a surplus of power. Peak demand in California matches peek efficacy because it is a hot clear day with a lot of sun. If designed right they will have some power during a black out.
The spawn of the spawn of the spawn of the children taught morality by these school districts will vandalize these solar panels to the point that I guarantee you that a break even will never be achieved.
It may or may not be your reason but you know - you KNOW - that somewhere between now and 2027 SOMETHING will happen which prevents this cost from being recouped. Whatever it is that is the cause will be “unforseeable” and “unfortunate”, of course.
But the liberals will think they have done the “right thing” therefore it will be “worth it” to them even though it didn’t work out.
We right thinking people understand this is pure insanity.
Or never have grid outages when it's dark, either due to time of day, or weather. Oh, wait; that would mean you ARE "off grid", at least temporarily.
10 days in sunny Southern California, due to Santa Anna winds. 7 days in Oregon, due to storm damage and flooding. 7 days in rural Northern California due to an unseasonable heavy wet snow & freezing temps. 3 days due to a forest fire taking out a major transmission line.
Suspenders AND belt...that's why we have THREE generators with a total continuous rating of 21KW...but no solar panels.
,,,,, don’t hold your breath though . . . Solar panels have been around for 50 years or about . My father in law has had 4 on his roof for over 10 years ,, for domestic hot water only and he’s working on them and the heat exchanger every year trying to keep the operating at a minimum level .
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