The War Is Over - So Why The Bitterness?

Old Virginia Blog ^ | 10 April 2011 | Richard G. Williams, Jr.

[Davy Buck]

"The fact that it is acceptable to put a Confederate flag on a car *bumper and to portray Confederates as brave and gallant defenders of states’ rights rather than as traitors and defenders of slavery is a testament to 150 years of history written by the losers." - Ohio State Professer Steven Conn in a recent piece at History News Network (No, I'll not difnigy his bitterness by providing a link)

This sounds like sour grapes to me. Were it not for the "losers" . . .

[TheBigIf]

You can pick any power delegated in the Constitution to the United States and the tenth Amendment clearly states it as NOT a state right.

The Confederacy committed treason to try to usurp even the smallest power to the greatest power from the Union. The tenth clearly stated that they had NOT that power.

[phi11yguy19]

We the People of the United States...do ordain and establish this Constitution FOR the United States of America.

As in it was written for who(?)...gotta read ahead a couple words..."the States" - not "the people" of America.

Of course you need to be able to read and quote more than 3 words to get the context.

And please add my own Pennsylvania's Governor Morris (who presided over the Consitution's Committee on Style) to the list of people more ignorant than yourself on this subject, since he said it was:

"a compact, not between individuals, but between political societies... each enjoying sovereign power, and, of course, equal rights."

[TheBigIf]

Yet you can NOT even read the tenth Amendment correctly at all which makes clear secession is illegal.

The Founding of this nation was built aruond ‘natural individual rights’ and not around group rights or special political rights built around state empires either.

Which is of course why you are a Lost Causer who still defends the treason of the democrats today.

Pathetic!

[phi11yguy19]

If the right to secede is NOT delegated to the United States (aka federal) government through the Constitution, then that would fall under the heading of...

those rights NOT delegated to the United State through the Constitution which you keep (accurately) repeating.

Either you're arguing with yourself for no reason, or you're in your early teens. Either way, a troll.

[TheBigIf]

True state rights were meant to preserve ‘individual rights’ which is exactly why you see the word state and People used respectively in the tenth Amendment.

Of course though for Confederate democrats it was meant as a means to enact treason and to undermien the rule of law which is why you see the tenth as a means to call for state anarchy and a throwing off of the rule of law and I see the tenth amendment as a means of preserving individual rights among all under the Constitution.

[TheBigIf]

Your argument is silly. If the Constitution doesn’t grant a power to say stop citizens from re-defining murder or re-defining marraige then in your mind it a natural right for you to redefine these things?

And you do not have to respect your fellow citizens right to representation on the issue? You can just unilaterally secede and change the definition of marraige or murder?

Oh wait. That is what you are arguing. I see it now. It is the same as the democrats of today argue as well. The Constitution is a document for you to rebel against and force change upon.

Pathetic.

[rockrr]

Not bad TheBigIf - you got the troll tag and as a bonus, called both a fascist and (referentially) Hitler by FreeRepublic’s own brownshirt patrol.

“You know you’re over your target when you start taking flak.”

[TheBigIf]

Thanks! I am hitting the sack for tonight.

Though I am honest with my opinions and some may be a bit strong I still though like to realize that there are many great FReepers on both sides of this issue.

I really appreciate being able to give my take on these issues but also really enjoy reading all of the great arguements that go on by others here as well.

Your posts are excellent on this issue.

Since I have joined this debate I have really learned alot and really respect and appreciate most of the debate by ny many here. I know it is an issue that can be a very passionate one for many.

To everyone...

All the Best!

Hopefully at the very least we all hold values meant to preserve our freedom and our Republic!

[wardaddy]

Nice post so give me your opinion what created some of the freepers we have here who sound exactly like media race baiters and call my ancestors nazis and traitors

[wardaddy]

Two biggest myths about the war between the states:

1) that slavery (expansion of)was not a key issue for the South

2) that the North fought to free the poor black man (slaves)

Both are equally inaccurate

[wardaddy]

Lol remind me never to flame you

That may be one of nonsensicals alt accounts btw

[wardaddy]

U left out that wilson was far more New Jersey than Virgina

This nonsense of GOP always good and DEMS always bad is so BECKIAN and flawed

I man think about it john stennis or olympia snowe?
Some freepers are such sheep

[phi11yguy19]

“life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” covers murder, and marriage is not an issue for D.C. to decide (yet), but as usual you’ve put a lot of thought into your post.

if you believe that a central government can grasp the needs and cultures from alaska to florida, maine to new mexico and legislate more effectively for each than their local governments can, then you’ve truly grasped what makes (made) us different than every other oppressive government in history. please allow me some time to re-indoctrinate myself until i agree with your wisdom.

[phi11yguy19]

i guess you’re agreeing with me since i was making the same point that blind R=good, D=bad like TheBigIf keeps going to is sad party politics and detracts from really discussing the bigger picture (which some corrupt D & R party leaders have counted on for a long time).

Not sure where you pull the “Beckian” from though. He’s ripped both parties so consistently from his years on CNNHN to FNC that I’m pretty sure there MUST be a better metaphor.

IMO, D politicians today are at best 85%+ bad (as in big, central government solves all the world’s problems), and R’s are probably still 60%+ but at least heading in the right direction (which is the only reason I registered a couple years ago, so I can get involved earlier and not have to choose between progressive and progressive-lite like in ‘08). As we saw with the party-line spending votes of the past few years, the “blue-dog” D is a thing of mythology.

Unfortunately, WAY too many people just tow the party lines, so whether or not they believe in a big central government, they vote to maintain and grow it because they don’t pay attention to the issues. Sadly, the founders’ knowledge of history that the only way to keep a central government from evolving to tyranny is to distribute the power as much as possible (politically between branches and geographically between states, counties, etc.) is a lesson lost for many generations. (My guess is it hasn’t been taught in public schools since circa 1865.)

[K-Stater]

Slavery wasn't the only issue discussed in those secession conventions, not by a long shot.

It was by far the single most important reason for the Southern rebellion to the exclusion of almost everything else.

Since the North wasn't fighting to end slavery and since the South could have maintained their peculiar institution by remaining in the Union...you know what that means, right?

It means your ignoring history. The South was not interested in remaining in a Union that wanted to limit the expansion of slavery. Safeguarding slavery were it existed was only part of the loaf, the South wanted the right to take their slaves into every state and every territory as Taney ruled in Dred Scott. They ensured that right was protected in their own Constitution.

[K-Stater]

You were banned, go away.

You are obviously confusing me with someone else.

[K-Stater]

Really? Texas? Yes, independent state for 8 years prior to joining the Union. Why do you ask?

Leaving aside your characterization of Texas for a moment, what about the other states I mentioned?

The others have their own fun origins of statehood, but you do realize none of them fought in the revolutionary war or signed the original Constitution, correct?

That's right. So none of them became states by merely ratifying the Constitution. And even the original 13 were colonies and only formed themselves into states when they adopted the Articles of Confederation, and retained that status when they adopted the Constitution. So strictly speaking, Lincoln was correct.

The Constitution was ratified and in effect before RI and VT joined...what were they before they did so...some word other than free and independent States?

Vermont, yes. They were an independent, sovereign state until 1791 when they were admitted as a state. Rhode Island, on the other hand, was never a state outside of the United States. It was always under the Articles of Confederation or the Constitution.

Did State constitutions exist before the federal one?

Yes, though I believe all of them date after the founding of the United States under the Articles of Confederation.

Were you trying to make a point?

That you were wrong when you mischaracterized what Lincoln said.

[Idabilly]

Warming up?

[central_va]

You are obviously confusing me with someone else

I see your constant mendacity hasn't changed only your screen name has.

[Idabilly]

That's right. So none of them became states by merely ratifying the Constitution. And even the original 13 were colonies and only formed themselves into states when they adopted the Articles of Confederation, and retained that status when they adopted the Constitution. So strictly speaking, Lincoln was correct

Geez! You forget that the States won their independence, as sovereign entities. It's all about plurality and "sovereignty"...

His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz.. New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.