Jeffrey Toobin Issued False Legal Statements to A. Cooper Regarding Vattel and the 14th Amendment.

naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com ^ | 02/17/2011 | Leo Donofrio, Esq.

[Danae]

What China decides to grant in now way affects what country a given person owes allegiance to with regard to Natural Born Citizenship. Natural Born Citizenship is determined at birth, and is in fact a CONDITION of Birth.

[Danae]

Your nitpicking is irrelevant. The founders were perfectly capable of reading the original french.

Besides, Vattels defination has been entered into the congressional record on a couple of occasions. A Natural Born Citizen is onw born to TWO parents who are citizens and that child being born upon our soil.

Thats it. End of argument.

Sorry. Next.

[rxsid]

"Well then, such “of course” should have been made clear in the article."

1st, the article was written by someone else (i.e I'm not Leo Donofrio). 2nd, check my posting in #1.

"So in your estimation, if China decided to grant automatic Chinese citizenship to all people of 50% of greater Chinese ancestry - do you think that as a result of this Chinese law, no natural born citizen of America of Chinese descent could ever be President under American law?"

Such a law would not apply to people not currently under the jurisdiction of Chinese law. Further, it wouldn't be recognized internationally save for perhaps N.K. and the like. Lastly, "natural born Citizen" is based on natural law, not "man's" law.

[Sergio]

So then I'm not a “natural born” citizen? Born in the U.S. to a U.S. citizen mom and a legal alien dad.

Damm! And I was planning on running in 2012 too.

[allmendream]

The argument I am responding to is this....

0bama, because of his British citizenship at birth under British law, cannot be a “natural born citizen” of the United States under U.S. law.

My argument is response is this....

So if China decides that all people of 50% or greater Chinese descent automatically have Chinese citizenship at birth under Chinese law, under the above argument, no American of Chinese descent can ever be a “natural born citizen” of the United States.

I agree with your statement that “What (any nation) decides to grant in no way affects what country a given person owes allegiance to with regard to Natural Born Citizenship”.

As such I reject the idea that because of British law, an otherwise “natural born citizen” of these United States under U.S. law will suddenly not be. I reject that idea utterly.

[allmendream]

Our law was founded on the principles of natural law, and as such all good and proper laws will comport with natural philosophy. Our own citizenship laws, as a reflection of natural laws, recognize citizenship at birth through both blood and soil - but has never established a criteria for both.

Vattel wasn't the first and last word on what “natural law” entails. He is not a secular saint with his words elevated to canon law beyond reproach abridgment or amendment.

And he never did use the term “natural born citizen”.

[Las Vegas Ron]

Thanks for the ping!

Vattel definition requires a person to be born in the United States to parents who were also born in the United States.

So even though he got it wrong, under his definition bammie is still not eleigible....lol, they're skeerd.

[SatinDoll]

I’m going to throw my two cents in here: an English translation of Vattel’s book, Law of Nations, was available in 1791-1792. This would have made it available to non-french reading attendees at the creation of the U.S.Constitution.

[allmendream]

And in THOSE translations it was translated as “natives or indigenous”.

Only after the writing of the U.S. Constitution did English translations of Vattel change the translation to “natural born citizens”.

Vattel himself never used that term.

[melancholy]

Toobin has therefore issued clearly false legal statements. Either these are lies for propaganda purposes, or he’s just a terrible legal analyst.

It's the former, I assure you!

We shouldn't be diplomatic with lying communists. We should smack them as liars NOT idiots who don't know what they're talking about.

The questions asked by Anderson Cooper in the interview with the Montana Rep. were rehearsed with Toobin and designed to put words in the Rep’s mouth who didn’t appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[SatinDoll]

Do you have a copy of the 1792 Law of Nations?

[ASA Vet]

So then I'm not a “natural born” citizen?

A status you share with the 2nd of my 3 sons.

#1 was born in Bangkok. His mother was a Thai Citizen. He acquired US Citizenship at Birth though me. He has both a certificate issued by our embassy in Bangkok, and a Thai birth certificate.

#2 was born in Michigan. His mother was still a Thai Citizen. He has a Michigan issued birth certificate.

#3 was born in Michigan and by that time his mother had become a Naturalized US Citizen. He was born in Michigan to TWO US Citizens. Of the three he is the only Natural Born Citizen.
He will be 35 soon, so by 1012 will be eligible to be President unlike the current Resident of the United States.

[rxsid]

"Natives or indigenous is what it meant.

Only later, after the writing of the Constitution, was it ‘translated’ as “natural born citizen”.

In 1787 Natural and Native were synonymous.

The royal dictionary, french and english, and english and french
Author: A. Boyer
Publisher: T. Osborne, 1764
Original from Ghent University

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=k7c_AAAAcAAJ

 

The royal dictionary English and French and French and English: extracted from the writings of the best authors in both languages
Author: Abel Boyer
Publisher: printed by John Mary Bruyset, 1768
Original from the Complutense University of Madrid

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=6POB0yOidU4C

 

The new royal and universal English dictionary ...: To which is prefixed, a grammar of the English language, Volume 2
Author: J. Johnson
Publisher: Millard, 1763
Original from Columbia University

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=OmtHAAAAYAAJ

 

A dictionary of the English language. Abstracted from the folio ed., by the author. To which is prefixed, an English grammar. To this ed. are added, a history of the English language
Author: Samuel Johnson
Edition: 3
Published: 1768
Original from: Oxford University

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=bXsCAAAAQAAJ

 

The new spelling dictionary
Author: John Entick
Published: 1780
Original from: University of Lausanne

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=xZUPAAAAQAAJ

[allmendream]

Yes, of course; don’t you?

[rxsid]

"“Jeffrey Toobin, alleged to be a “CNN Senior Legal Analyst”, gave a clearly false description of Vattel’s definition of “natural born citizen”. Toobin stated that the Vattel definition requires a person to be born in the United States to parents who were also born in the United States.”

However incorrect this statement may be, he has just proven that if B0’s father was indeed BO, B0 can’t be a natural born Citizen because BO wasn’t born in the US. Thanks, Jeff.

----------------------------------------------------

Excellent point! And they ... Anderson Cooper and Toobin are too stupid to have even realized what Toobin just said!

[SatinDoll]

No, but then I don’t need one. I’m a French linguist.

[rxsid]

Obviously Vattel didn't write his legal treatise to state "natural born Citizen." I mean, seriously. He wrote the thing in French, which reads:

Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens

Translated to English, gives this:

the natural, or indigenous, are those born in the country, parents who are citizens

[allmendream]

I'm a cunning linguist.

The first English translation of Vattel that included the term “natural born citizens” as a translation was in 1797.

That is 10 years after the Constitution was ratified.

And who made Vattel a secular saint, the divine arbiter of Natural Law, never to be altered amended or abridged?

[Danae]

Reject if if you like, Obama was born with British citizenship. You cannot be a citizen with a second citizenship and be a Natural Born Citizen. TWO nations laid claim to Obama, LEGALLY by virtue of his citizenship at the instant of his birth.

This is why the Natural Born Citizen clause is in the Constitution with regard to qualifying for POTUS. It was a common sense National Security Matter to insure that the person who seeks to be POTUS ONLY had one citizenship possiblity from the instant of his/her birth, and carried forward that same status all their life.

Obama ADMITS he has held in his life, US, and British and Kenyan citizenship. He is LITERALLY relying on your (and all the rest of America’s) ignorance of history, and ignorance of what a Natural Born Citizen IS.

Yes, Obama is relying on your ignorance. So hold to it if you like. The Sun rises in the east, and Obama was never, could never have been a Natural Born Citizen. It doesn’t matter WHERE he was born, he would have been born with British Citizenship if he was born in JFK’s lap.

Obama is an Usurper, and we do not have a constitutional government.

REMOVE THE CRETIN NOW.

[Danae]

BINGO!

LOL