Posted on 02/03/2011 4:21:18 PM PST by butterdezillion
And you really should mend fences with Fred Nerks. She’s been at this for a long time, deserves respect.
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Ditto! MUCH respect and thanks, in fact.
This hardly fits the narrative of a family able/willing to shell out big bucks for Ann to travel to Africa to meet the folks, does it?
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Do recall that the Dunhams were by then well ensconced in the commie (Little Red Church) movement and crowd, and benefactors for liberal folks/causes would’ve been quite available .. folks like the Nachmanoff’s .. (the senior member of that family, still alive today now in the DC area, who’s pictured in those 60’s photos with BHOSr in HI,
and who WOULD have pertinent info but is apparently so much an ‘untouchable’ as to be non-existent) and other wealthy libs, their orgs and anti-establishment types who promoted multi-culturism and lib causes.
That BHOSr and others from Africa even were able to come to HI for an education was obviously in part with the aid and great intent of well-heeled liberal folks who all networked for their common anti-American causes.
Would it be difficult for a DBA to come up with a “detailed history” that would not compromise the security of the system?
Somebody else has also brought up the issue of whether somebody could forge transaction logs or anything else. Are there controls that keep anybody from being able to tamper with the records of the processing?
A DBA wouldn’t be required to pull a detailed history. Whatever software they use to access the database to pull up records, print them, etc. would necessarily have the ability to print a detailed history. (But to answer your qestion, yes, a DBA could query that information upon request.)
No one but the DBA will have access to the database-level transaction logs. Those are automatically generated by the software that runs the database itself (separate an apart from the operating system and the applications that access the DB) and require DBA login privileges to access them or even find out where they reside.
The application-level audit logs are also generated automatically by software. They’re likely simple records stored in the DB itself. If one knew the table structures, yes, one could theoretically alter them. However, if altered, those records would no longer match (correspond to) what’s in the database-level logs. That would create a discrepancy that only a DBA could untangle.
Someone asked me privately why anyone should believe my answers regarding the database knowing my history with birthers. The answer to that is:
You don’t have to believe anything I’ve said. Feel free to copy anything I’ve said and post it on the IT-related forum of your choice for verification.
So are the audit records meant to be able to be compiled for somebody auditing them somewhere down the line without too much difficulty and without compromising the security of the system? Or does the DBA or somebody who already knows the system usually audit the records?
I apologize if my questions are stupid or bothersome. This is WAY out of my field of expertise so it’s sort of like playing “Clue” (which my kids want me to do this afternoon. lol): I take a guess, find out where I’m wrong, revise my thoughts, and guess again.
“Do recall that the Dunhams were by then well ensconced in the commie (Little Red Church) movement and crowd, and benefactors for liberal folks/causes would’ve been quite available”
Seriously? The Dunhams were going to put out a plea to these liberal folks to bankroll their daughter’s jetting back and forth to Africa for the privilege of delivering a baby conceived out of wedlock? Folks who had never even been invited to the wedding much less ever met the father? I agree that if Ann had been on a POLITICAL mission—however misguided—funds for such travel might have been available. You’re welcome to believe what you wish, but I and I believe most people without an axe to grind, would find you line of reasoning unpersuasive.
The same objection can be leveled at the notion that Sr. could have tapped into the same sources that bankrolled his coming to America. If anything, Sr’s behavior had to be deeply embarrassing to the program that sponsored him: here’s an already-married GRADUATE student knocking up an impressionable FRESHMAN within weeks of the semester beginning. Do you seriously think Sr. would have DARED to broach the possibility of getting a grant to fly his wife back to Africa to deliver his conceived-out-of-wedlock son? Every dollar used to finance such a boondoggle would have been seen as a dollar denied to another African for a legitimate purpose—namely getting a top-quality education in America. Again, believe what you wish, but don’t expect others to find this argument compelling.
The story that’s been presented is that Ann went there to meet the family and get acclimated to the situation, with the goal in mind that she would eventually settle down in Kenya with Barack. But when she saw how the family treated women, as well as the fact that she was going to have to share Barack with at least one other wife (with Muslims having the possibility of 4 wives at a time), she got cold feet, tried to leave but couldn’t because the delivery was too close, and then left as soon after the birth as she could.
I haven’t followed all the alternate theories closely because my main thing is with the official documents, but IIRC the friend who says she saw Ann with the baby in Seattle when Ann didn’t know how to change a diaper claimed that Ann had intended to settle down in Kenya. But then that person also claimed that Barack wasn’t with her because he was going to Harvard then, when Obama actually didn’t go to Harvard until a year later so the story is (again) full of discrepancies.
The seeming fact that Barack and Ann never lived together as husband and wife just makes the whole situation so tentative and unbelievable that a person doesn’t even have a solid enough basis to speculate. Just like everything with Obama - about as solid as jello pounded to the wall. lol.
The thing that WOULD shed some real, substantial light is the passport records, which I think rolling stone is right to focus on. It certainly doesn’t make sense for them to hide the index records for Stanley Ann’s issued passports, especially if her not having any passport until after 1961 would strongly suggest or prove that she had not even gone abroad. It would be such an easy way for the government to give some reassurances to those who have doubts. Those index records are microfilmed and stored in alphabetical order. Why have they refused several people for over a year on something that simple? They’ve had the time and taxpayer money to file multiple responses in lawsuits in order to keep any records from being seen but don’t have the time to do a 5-minute-max search?
So your desire to see concrete evidence regarding SAD’s travels or potential to travel is shared by all of us. It’s just that “the most transparent administration ever” would rather fight lawsuits than take 5 minutes to just give us what the law says we are entitled to receive.
I have no illusions about the moral fiber, activities and goals of liberals.
“This is possibilities not probabilities.”
My attitude exactly. I don’t deny the possibility of various alternative theories of BHO’s birth, but please don’t pass these off as probabilities UNTIL/UNLESS there is more compelling evidence available to support these.
“Is it a dead end because something is not probable but possible”
I haven’t declare anything a “dead end”—including any of Fred Nerks’ various theories. I have simply asserted that in light of the evidence I’m aware of, they are not AT THIS POINT IN TIME persuasive to me. That’s a neutral position. It doesn’t mean I’m not open to new evidence or even old evidence of which I was unaware.
Let me be clear: I think the burden of proof regarding his birth lies with BHO. I don’t think he has met that burden of proof. But neither do I think there is sufficient evidence on the table to point to any particular alternative theory BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Some theories I find more persuasive than others given both the evidence and what I know about human nature. So it’s all a continuum, if you will, and I don’t pretend to have a monopoly on truth—especially since in this instance I have no idea what exactly Obama is hiding or why. All I “know” is that his behavior seems mighty suspicious, as does that of many of his defenders and operatives etc.
No problem.
If auditing is required by law, then the regulations dictate what is contained in the audit records. If auditing is a business requirement, then the software designers dictate what is in the audit records. Likewise the type of requirement (law vs. Business) dictates who does the auditing and what level of knowledge is required to perform the audit.
In my personal experiences, auditors are generally given access to whatever the heck they want. That usually includes working with a DBA and/or systems administrator who is at their beck and call.
I’m not sure if I answered your question about compromising system security. Auditors usually aren’t a security risk because their function is to prove or disprove. So they can see whatever they need to perform an audit. They may use both application- and database-level /transaction/audit logs.
If HDoH employees altered records, they wouldn’t be able to hide it from an auditor.
thanks, and I might add, anyone who hasn’t been around for the two long threads or read the reserach on Obama The African Colonial...has a lot of catching up to do.
Thanks for posting the link.
The address in the Polk for Hawaii - she’s shown as ANN S OBAMA.
There are also techno-studs here on FR who could easily call you out if you said something inaccurate, so if anybody sees something that seems amiss I would hope they’d say something.
Maybe I’ll just ask you this: If you wanted to make sure that any foul play with vital records was detected, what records would you allow to be subpoenaed, and how would you accommodate the need to keep the system secure?
We could have Alaska crooks going in and changing Sarah Palin’s records to say she was born in China, or we could have crooks going in to change Schwartzneggar’s records to say he was born in California. Either way, the actual record of who did what with the record and on the basis of what documentation would vindicate the innocent and make a heckuva lot of trouble for the guilty, and that’s exactly what we want, because ultimately we need a secure system over the long haul. This is about much, much more than just Obama but about the ability to find out the truth when the truth is critical to national security.
What records could be subpoenaed in those situations, for instance, to insure that the truth was found out?
...and when the son of a kenyan goat herder wrote home while he was working for an oil company before he arrived in Hawaii, to tell his family in Kenya he had married a woman named Anna Toot - he knew all that?
I very much doubt it...it’s far more likely that name was transmitted phonetically, most of the villagers couldn’t read.
Makes sense. So if an AG or whoever had legal permission to audit the records they could hire an auditor who would then work with the DBA to do the job?
Would that be the most reasonable way to handle something like that? If a person was allowed to subpoena “all relevant records including transaction logs and/or detailed vital records history”, would that give both the access and the security protection needed to insure that the truth ultimately was known without compromising the system’s security? Should an auditor specifically be mentioned as the means for such information to be transferred, or would that basically be the only way a person would know how to get the records anyway?
Oh, you’re probably very correct, but it IS another very weird oddity, dontcha know.
Hey guys —
Take a deep breath and consider ONLY what we KNOW, not what we’ve been told.
A male child of mixed race was born some place, at some time around 1961, and at some point (birth to early childhood), he became the responsibility of Stanley Ann Dunham, who by 1963 had a legal and possible personal relationship with Barak Hussein Obama, a student at the University of Hawaii.
Since there is neither legal nor medical documentation of that child’s birth, it is an open question when Stanley Ann Dunham first held him. Or where.
At best, his origins were out of step with social mores of the time. I suspect many here were not old enough to know that an out-of-wedlock pregnancy, especially a black/white one, is something that would have been kept hidden in 1961. I was of legal age in the 1960s. Believe me.
Unwed pregnant women were sent away to give birth, under any number of cover stories.
Some young woman needed a cover story in 1961. Where that young woman gave birth and who the father was is unknown. Whether Stanley Ann Dunham was that girl, or whether she covered for that girl, is a question without an answer.
There’s a fog of misinformation. Accept only provable facts.
You don’t have much to work with.
lol! I just remembered, I once saw a family tree that had zero’s ‘American family’ connected to French royalty...
If I were an attorney, I would subpoena information and not records because information encompasses records, logs, histories, audit trails, backups, paperwork, images, etc.
As a DBA, I’d fight the release and publication in court documents of my transaction logs. I’d offer human “eyes only” access to see the data being requested but refuse to provide an electronic copy or printout. Usually, the legal team agrees with my assessment and tries to accommodate requests for information without giving up my logs.
Let’s say I was tasked with proving that someone altered Sarah’s records. I could prove who did it, when, and how and still redact most of the technical details that would compromise my DB.
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