Posted on 12/23/2010 5:29:16 AM PST by marktwain
I have said it before and I will end up saying it again: the 1911 an old design that is more trouble than it is worth. I don’t say it to be confrontational, or to draw attention to myself. I say it because I see my fellow shooters mindlessly parroting the gun equivalent of Chuck Norris Facts whenever the 1911 comes up in conversation, and I just don’t get it.
I am not surprised that the 1911 is out of place in today’s world, and you shouldn’t be surprised either. What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?
In the comment section of another blog, I summarized my skepticism of the 1911′s attributes thusly:
It’s a 100-year old design. It needs tools to disassemble. It has unreliable magazines. It is finicky about ammo. And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry.
In my original complaint, I forgot to mention the issue with slide-stop failures, and the whole internal extractor/external extractor situation. Either of which would be serious enough to kill any other design’s reputation in the shooting world.
In response to some knee-jerk defenses of the 1911 from fanboys who drank too much John M. Browning Kool-Aid, who told me how all that I needed to do was buy a bunch of aftermarket parts and send the gun to a gunsmith, I added:
Why does a reliable 1911 cost so much, and need so much gunsmithing?
To be fair, I have some of the same complaints with the Walther PPK. Which is also a very old design, one which has been eclipsed by more modern designs which can do everything it does better.
I mean, is it unreasonable to expect an affordably-priced pistol for defense to reliably feed hollowpoints out of the box? What Smith&Wesson pistol of recent manufacture won’t feed hollowpoints? What about Glock? SiG? Beretta? (I know Kahrs need to have some rounds through them before they are reliable, but it says that right in the owners manual). The shooting public would not accept an unreliable gun of a more modern design. But for some reason, the 1911 gets a pass for all of its flaws. “Just use hardball” is not a valid defense of the 1911 design, nor is it a valid strategy for selecting ammunition to defend yourself.
And God help anyone who buys a used 1911. Everyone and their brother seems to think they are qualified to take a Dremel to their 1911. Guys who can’t change their own flat tire somehow have no reservations about playing doctor on their 1911. Who knows what wacky “custom” parts have been put into the gun because someone read about it on the interweb tubes?
It was the best military sidearm of its day, and for a long time afterward. I do not dispute that. But its time has long passed. And a military sidearm is not the same thing as a handgun for personal defense.
Leave aside the lack of reliability with hollowpoints, and the other problems. The 1911 is too big to conceal. And the smaller versions are less reliable due to the shorter slide-travel and a tendency to limp-wrist the gun.
Some people protest by saying that the 1911 is the best gun for defense, because the most “realistic” shooting sports are heavily populated with 1911 users. And everyone knows that you should train like you fight, so that you will fight like you train, right? Well, that would be a more convincing argument if those “realistic” shooting sports didn’t have intricate rules that somehow disqualify most non-1911 designs. Purely by coincidence, right? Sure, they come up with semi-plausible rationales for some of those rules, but there is no way to disguise the overall bias towards the 1911.
I don’t hate 1911 fans. I merely pity them, because they are victims of marketing hype and groupthink, the lemmings of the gun world. And if someone sinks thousands of dollars into a 1911 (and isn’t using it to compete for money), well they are just gullible. Like the kind of people who pay money for tapwater in a bottle.
So what if Jeff Cooper liked the only handgun in use when he was in the military? It’s not like he had a choice of other handguns to use. And, on a related note, Jeff Cooper has a reputation that exceeds his accomplishments. The best information that I can find shows that he spent the battle of Guadalcanal as the training officer on Gen. Vandegrift’s staff. Not leading a platoon. Not on the line, pulling a trigger. And his coy evasions when asked about his real-world experience with gunfighting are revealing, if one cares to view them objectively. (If you have documentation about Cooper’s real-world experience, please drop me a line. I am happy to revise my opinion.) I have no doubt that he was qualified to teach people how to shoot on a range. Beyond that, a grain of salt is required. I prefer to get my advice on defense & gunfighting from men who have actually been there & done that; Massad Ayoob, Jim Cirillo, etc. Am I a qualifications snob? No, I am an results snob.
Ok, got it out of my system.
Actually it was designed to be reloaded easily on horseback. The fact that the round is a much better man-killer was a bonus.
I love my 1911, but it is primarily for range work and alternative home defense, if it comes to that. For concealed carry though, I rely on a compact, polymer-frame .45 - light, accurate and powerful.
“It’s a 100-year old design”
Yes it's an old design. That isn't an argument. Revolvers are older and still in use. If it works does it matter?
“It needs tools to disassemble”?
It does? Mine doesn’t..but regardless lots of firearms require tools for dis-assembly but doesn’t make them “bad”.
“It has unreliable magazines.”
There are unreliable magazines for every weapon that uses magazines. This is a Non-argument that isn’t based on the pistol design.
“It is finicky about ammo.” It requires that ammo be in spec including OAL so it feeds correctly, which is the same with any semi-auto.
“issues with slide-stop failures”
non argument. Slide stops generally are not a problem with 1911’s anymore than any other semi-auto.
“The whole internal extractor/external extractor situation”?
what “situation”?
“The 1911 is too big to conceal and the smaller versions are less reliable due to the shorter slide-travel...”
The 1911 is smaller than most .45’s. It’s very slim profile makes it nice to carry. It’s not a pocket pistol though. Any barrel length shorter than 2.5 inches has issues in the 1911 design but there are lot’s a firearms that couldn’t have half of its designed barrel length removed and still function reliably.
“Well, that would be a more convincing argument if those “realistic” shooting sports didn’t have intricate rules that somehow disqualify most non-1911 designs”.
IDPA and IPSC both allow non-1911’s. Glocks are typically the first pistol people buy to compete with although s&w have a following. Then a lot of competitors move up to a doublestack 1911 design...because they are simply better. Regardless they are still one of the most used firearms in these sports. That would be proof to anyone but a die hard hater. How about that "results snob"?
“I don’t hate 1911 fans. I merely pity them, because they are victims of marketing hype and groupthink, the lemmings of the gun world.”
Just because you are a 1911 hater doesn't make you immune to group think or marketing hype or even make you less of a lemming. There are plenty of 1911 haters out there and there always will be. You are not a unique and precious snowflake of 1911 hate.
I've owned or own SIGs, Glocks, S&W, Browning, Rugers, Colts but my go to handgun is a Kimber 1911 followed by SIG 226.
have any of you had a 1911 go off when slamming
home a bullet fed from the clip ~?~??
Like what?
I’m a 6000 year old design and I still work pretty well.
Can you elucidate on this point, please?
The story I heard that it was designed for our troops fighting the Huks in the Phillipine Islands. I'm not sure what religion the Huks were....but I guess they could have been Muslims.
The story went that the Huks would tie a string around their penis so that their urine would be backed up and poison their systems stopping any feelings of pain. Our troops could shoot them full of holes and they would still keep on coming unless they were hit in a vital spot. The .45 was designed to knock them down anywhere it hit them and make them easier to dispatch.
He appears to be a fool anyway.
If you use that beast daily, you must have a cast iron shoulder.
“If you buy a cheap 1911, like a Rock Island for instance, you may experience some of the problems described in the article. “
I own two of them and have never had an issue with them.
They will eat any ammo I give them.
I've not tried to buy ammo for mine for a long time. Mentioned getting some to a friend and his comment was "Good Luck".
That 30-40 is an accurate weapon, it just about aims itself. I'm a terrible shot, and even I can shoot well with it.
What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?
Washered faucet, internal combustion engine (gas or diesel), manual transmisssion, differential axle, steam turbine, roller bearing, franklin stove, bifocal glasses, incandescent bulb, arc welder, pneumatic cylinder, pneumatic tire, AC squirrel-cage motor, brushed DC motor, bicycle, rotary hydraulic damper, compound-pulley racheting winch (”come-along”), variable-speed aircraft propeller, band saw, outboard motor, etc.
1911s don’t have ‘clips’.
Mine has no problems with hollowpoints.
And the single action trigger is kind of the point. In a few years time people will likely be just as appalled at all these double action pistols with no safety. Different tools, different uses.
And God help anyone who buys a used 1911. Everyone and their brother seems to think they are qualified to take a Dremel to their 1911.
This is not a problem with the design. If you ever buy a used muscle car, you will find the same thing. "A million dollars in engineering, screwed up by $50 in parts."
Of course, anyone who sees fit to malign someone who has passed on purely to promote himself says all that needs to be said about his character.
Lever action 30-30
Springfield 30-06
DC 3 almost
B52 is getting there
Or should we go back to horse and buggy? Boama wants us to walk.
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