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To: tcg

The Cathollic Church or Vatican announced Saturday that Israel has no right to the holy land. That it is not the ‘chosen’ people since our Messiah made that null and void. They went full on into replacement theology and are now in my opinion an apostate religion.


10 posted on 11/01/2010 6:11:06 AM PDT by panzerkamphwageneinz (HALLELUJAH)
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz

That was a statement by an AMERICAN Greek-Rite bishop who “summarized” the conference, although most of the rest of the conference was primarily about Islam and how the Church in the Middle East can defend itself. Curiously enough, virtually all of that was deleted from the final statement, probably by lefties in the Vatican press service.


15 posted on 11/01/2010 6:17:01 AM PDT by livius
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz
The Cathollic Church or Vatican announced Saturday that Israel has no right to the holy land.

Can you provide a link?

19 posted on 11/01/2010 6:25:06 AM PDT by Doofer
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz

The fullness of the Christian faith resides in the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church doesn’t do “replacement theology”. The Church originally consisted entirely of Jews, who heard and believed the Gospel. Soon afterwards, gentiles were “grafted on”, through baptism and the other sacraments, so that, in Christ, they too are heirs to God’s promises to his people. The Jews of today are beloved by God but are alienated from him, as John the Baptist and later Jesus repeatedly had warned.

Your opinion of what religion’s apostate is just that — your opinion — unless you enjoy authority from God to speak definitively on the matter. Is there something special about you that we should know?


48 posted on 11/01/2010 7:29:55 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz

“The Cathollic [sic]Church or Vatican announced Saturday that Israel has no right to the holy land.”

Can you substantiate this with something directly from the Vatican?


54 posted on 11/01/2010 7:48:22 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz
The Cathollic Church or Vatican announced Saturday that Israel has no right to the holy land. That it is not the ‘chosen’ people since our Messiah made that null and void. They went full on into replacement theology and are now in my opinion an apostate religion.

Repeatedly in Scripture, and historically from the very beginning, Christianity has always taught that the blessings of Abraham were not split into separate categories. Abrahamic blessings can be claimed solely by those who remained faithful to God in receiving the Messiah. This historically orthodox Christian teaching is rejected only by rabbinical Jewish and the 180-year-old Dispensational traditions.

The term "Replacement theology" is a pejorative talking point that requires the absurdity of the original Jewish Christians having to replace themselves.

64 posted on 11/01/2010 8:26:25 AM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz; tcg; livius; NYer
What was published from the recent Middle East Synod was bad enough, but it was not said by "the Catholic Church or Vatican" as you rather vaguely stated. By the way, I'm not blaming you: often the authorship and authority (or lack of authority) of such pronouncements is left maddeningly vague or even mis-reported, and the text itself is heavily edited (dare I say censored? --- see livius' important comments at #13) which is not your fault at all. But that creates the necessity for somebody to step in and clarify.

The Catholic Church teaches this about the Jewish people:

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

(Catechism of the Catholic Church, para 839)

However, when the Synod of Middle Eastern Bishops' concluding statement came out (in heavily redacted form), it made some outrageously unbalanced statements about the State of Israel: I will firmly and unequivocally state that their remarks were slanderous toward Israel, and I am by far not the only one to condemn them. (It pains me to say that Melkite Archbishop Cyril Bustros was particularly offensive in this regard.)

Archbishop Bustros and the other Syrian and Chaldean bishops are under immediate threat of having their tiny churches wiped out. Muslim jihadis have already largely carried out this threat, especially over the past 10 years.

That does not justify their statements slamming Israel and fawning on their Muslim tormentors, but it should be fairly considered that their statements (1) had almost all their anti-Muslim comments "pruned away" before publication; (2) are being made with, in effect, a gun to their heads, and (3) in any case, do not reflect Catholic doctrine.

Bishops' failings, weaknesses and political hand-waving do not constitute authoritative sources of doctrine in the Church.

Can we have a word of respect or decent sympathy for the priest and 52 people blown to bloody smithereens in their own church?

82 posted on 11/01/2010 9:03:07 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Lord help us all.)
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To: panzerkamphwageneinz

That is a terrible policy decision, if the church actually did come out with this type of edict. I’m not trying to besmirch your veracity here either.

Israel has a right to exist where it is. I believe that one issue alone is crucial. Christians need to stand beside Israel.

If the leadership of a religion comes out with a policy that denies Israel’s right to exist, it has pretty much sealed it’s own fate in my opinion.

Above and beyond whether Israel is God’s chosen people, they are human beings that have gathered in Israel and have a right to be recognized and respected.

Israel stands where it is with my support.


99 posted on 11/01/2010 9:24:57 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (BHO fans said I was a hater, dismissed my thoughts. Sure glad our side isn't like that.)
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