Posted on 09/17/2010 8:12:44 PM PDT by One Name
I’ve been mulling this one around in my head for quite awhile; with Detroit’s recent near collapse I’ve been trying to draw some parallels with the general state of affairs in this country. Many of you on Free Republic are quite in tune with self-sufficiency- perhaps this may ring a bell with you.
Detroit started losing me about the time I came of age to drive, 1975. I grew up helping my dad do maintenance and minor repairs on 60’s cars. Later I owned some 50’s vintage stuff. Unfortunately, I have owned many more recently made vehicles ( none newer than 1994) . I purchased one new vehicle in 1978. These are the issues I see:
* Needless complexity. Superfluous gee gaws that add nothing to functionality, and only complicate diagnosis. I was raised to believe you need 3 gauges- oil pressure, water temperature and a voltmeter. I’ll add a vacuum gauge for you mileage people. If I know the status of those 3 readings, I can shut her down before anything bad happens.
* Assembly line mindset. Cars built to go together on the line and not repaired or dismantled in any other sequence. Many foul words would never have been invented had the end user and mechanic been consulted. The “factory special tool” industry would not have gotten off the ground.
* Lack of Retro/cross-compatibility. In the frenzy to replace models and offer new looks and features, far too many parts become obsolete and un-updateable or interchangeable. In my opinion, Chevrolet/GM in the old days had a much better handle on this than Ford or Mopar. Nobody gets a medal now.
* Mickey Mouse Plastic Bullshit. How many little plastic things, connectors, etc. have you broken trying to figure out how to take the damn thing apart? How about power windows that quit because of a 2 cent plastic piece? I’d pay a dollar or two more for a real fitting.
* Diagnostics that don’t Diagnose Crap. Most of the time, the problem is a faulty sensor, rather than a true problem. Often, when you have a true problem, like a bad ignition module, it won’t send a code. What’s up with that?
* Dealer Support. They’ve driven us to the O’Reillys, Pep Boys and junk yards of the nation. The dealers do exactly zip for you if you’re not under warranty. Unless you want to pay their outrageous overhead, which I will not. Don’t source parts from them. You can buy a whole wreck cheaper.
My rant is over, for now. Detroit started to blow it with the automatic choke. It was all down hill from there for the do it yourselfer!
Mazdaspeed 3?
All reasons the old Volvos are dear to my heart.
Pull the bulb and be done with it!!!
WoW! I’m drooling!
I just cover the check engine light with electric tape.
That’s a great point; I’m their worst customer because I’ve never bought a new car, and drive old ones into the ground. On the one hand, it may look good that a 17 year old car is still on the road; on the other, it is so obviously decrepit nobody would mistake it for an endorsement of any particular make: it looks like it was stolen from a junkyard right before entering the compactor...Also, it has part form several different brands on it.
: )
“The middle 70’s doomed the cars I loved.”
You got that right; I’m almost 40, and the minivan my family bought in ‘03 was the first car either of us ever had that had more than 4 cylinders...A minivan was our muscle car.
How sad.
“old Volvos”
I hear you; first car was a ‘76 (in ‘93); last year I got a ‘97. Until you have to fix something, they’re great (pretty expensive); even then, they run well with many things broken!
Does that mean Muslims will not buy them?
Were you going to get back to us on that American car with 265 hp 4 cyl?
Two things, first, I was out of town until just now and I wasn't speaking to only American cars, but cars in General. You simply assumed it was an American car. The orignal poster was griping about plastics and on board new fangled computers mucking up the works. My point was that now we have cars that go longer, go faster, have less emmissions and get better gas mileage, all due to the things he's ranting about in his original post.
I guess he was right in a way. Had Detroit stuck to the utter crap 75k mile throwaway cars that blew fan belts, alternators, cap and rotor, plugs, wires, fuel pumps, batteries, radiators and brakes continuously while getting 8mpg and belching fumes like the tires were on fire we wouldn't be having this thread. They'd have long gone the way of the dodo.
For the record, I own a WRX.
The title of the article was “Where DETROIT lost me” -
So argueing that a WRX is an effectively smarter car than the standard GM crap is kind of off target.
I have two Alfas, a Sienna, and a Mercury Sable. I drive the Sable with the idiot light on. It passes smog with the light on, and mileage has not changed. It is a fine car - probably the volume production helped them iron out many of the silly things.
Have you had an American car with greater than 70,000 miles in the last decade? Go back and read the original note - not your biased interpretation of it. The author does not mention engine management system - he mentions overcomplicated diagnostics - which is accurate. Cheap plastic connectors? Problems for domestics and Europeans - seldom a problem for Asians.
Maybe you can write a response - “Where Detroit lost ME” - there is no American equivalent to a WRX - why not? Ford had Escort and Cosworth RS - and Cortina and Lotus Cortina before that - when Subaru was struggling to import grocery getters.
How is Toyata able to launch and support Lexus - with re-badged Toyotas - but Ford has to kill Mercury (re-badged Fords?) -
There is much that could be simplified on a modern car without affecting any of the engine management system issues you bring up. And reliability - and performance - of American and Euro cars would be improved if they paid attention to the details - such as connectors and switches. And ease of maintenance, and part interchangeability.
Thanks - but I’ll keep my Alfa Spyder.
This car is too big for what I consider a roadster. And lacks road feel. And frankly - I have no trust with GM. They have “lost me” as a customer - even before the socialist bailout.
And why this while Nissan makes 370Z?
I appreciate your response, and I think you got my drift pretty well nailed. I am not by any stretch anti-technology. I am for technology that is robust, sensible and accessible to the common citizen.
Chevy 283’s would run 200K back in 1967. HEI was a great improvement (maybe not in an energy impulse attack, but that’s another thread). On-board diagnostics is cool, when meaningful and open platform, instead of proprietary and expensive gobbledegook.
There was an apparent disconnect between marketing, engineering and the DIY consumer that resulted in the US losing its pre-eminence in an industry that should have been perpetual here.
I admire European engineering. I own a BMW R1000CS that is light years ahead of my evo 1100 Sportster. I don’t admire Europe for electing socialists who placed $6-8/ gallon tax on gasoline, forcing the commoner to drive microcars or take the bus. Doesn’t work for us here in flyover country.
As for spewing emissions, breaking down, etc.: While I’m not a global warming freak, I don’t have a problem with cleaner fuels, ethanol, cat converters ( I don’t run them if I don’t have to), high energy ignition with computer-controlled advance, just give me a system I can set with an open platform laptop, with a fail-safe workaround.
The serpertine belt was a Detroit invention, IIRC?
As spread out as we are, the US needs solid transportation infrastructure and reasonably priced energy. The current situation has most of the population making ridiculous ongoing car payments or struggling to keep older stuff going in order to have the personal mobility a free society deserves.
It could be a lot better than it is, for everyone, not just the Beemer crowd.
You may not have a problem with ethanol - but ask your fuel system hoses - they will have another opinion.
The main problem is that our auto industry became political (micro and macro). There is nominal real innovation, because no one wants to take any risk. A “big risk” was making the Viper - duh - selling Americans sports cars with gobs of power was a risk?
Look where the government sent the “stimulus money” and other funds for developing electric and hybrid vehicles: Did they have a national competition for funds - requesting ten page proposals open to the public, maybe choosing ten to fund for $1MM each, then another gate for the best 3 at the end of year 1 for another $10MM each? With a final winner getting $1B for a plant? No - they gave the money to Detroit insiders (hundreds of $millions) - the same guys who just demonstrated that they could not run their companies efficiently. The same guys who get their pants beat by Honda and Toyota (Hybrids).
This society has issues.
I’ve developed technology that was offered to Ford, GM, Chrysler, and Honda. It is going into production for Honda. Others - nope. No vision.
Been running 10% ethanol out here for years now. Old school stuff couldn’t handle it, just like old school valve seats couldn’t handle unleaded.
Have zero ethanol problems with anything I’m running now; ‘69 thru ‘94 ( at the 10%level). You go thru some fuel filters pretty quick, but the rubber can handle it after you rebuild carbs with newer kits and replace the lines. Even mechanical fuel pumps coming out of Mexico, etc. are up to the task.
We did gum up some boat motors at first!
As if “Cash for Clunkers” wasn’t enough evidence, you are absolutely right about where the money and “green” impetus went. They want to starve us dinosaurs out.
Sorry, O, before I buy a $40,000 truck I’ll buy 20 $2000 trucks.
Just bought an ‘83 Chevy 1/2 ton , short bed step side last week, 4WD, 350 crate engine, 700R4 ( would prefer a turbo 350 or 400) with good rubber for $1300. Need to run the valves yet but it will be good enough for the boy to make it back and forth to school all winter- holds 50lbs oil pressure. Took it on an obstacle course checking cows last night that most suburban 4WD owners would have nightmares about and it passed the test. Kept up with an old Jeep thru deep ditches and mud.
You obviously are an astute observer/participant in the unfolding process...don’t forget about us.
I’m not a corn farmer but the ethanol thing put a new floor under corn prices that helped us more than it hurt others.
Take care- we’re here for the duration.
Sounds like a fun truck.
You may think the fuel lines are OK with ethanol - 90-95% of them are. (By “fuel lines” I mean all lines and gaskets exposed to fuel) - many of these minor hoses work ok - but watch the assumption that “it can’t be this $5 hose”.
Many of the materials were not thoroughly re-tested for modern fuel mixtures - they did some accelerated testing, which is nominally OK. But if your friends start having weird engine management problems - look at the unimportant little hoses first. Starting at 100K miles.
Fuel pumps and carbs - are usually well tested - as they are “important”. Its the little hoses and seals - like related to low temp idle sensor, etc.
As an aside - anyone discussing how dysfunctional our society has become - when archaelogists look back - they will see that we are burning food (ethanol) just to make our cars run. Very Easter Island.
You’re right- the little o-rings and what not dissolve into black glue when not ethanol-ready.
There is a school of thought ( grass-fed cattle) that we shouldn’t be feeding corn to cattle; it’s unnatural.
But, the corn raised for feeding cattle isn’t what humans eat, anyway (in this country, at least). What goes into tortillas and corn flakes is not the genetically-modified feed corn that was diverted into the ethanol stream.
Wasn’t too many years ago (10 maybe) when corn was selling here for $1.80 a bushel, barely what it took to produce. Now they’re getting $3.50- $4.00 a bushel and can pay the bills.
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