Posted on 09/17/2010 8:12:44 PM PDT by One Name
I’ve been mulling this one around in my head for quite awhile; with Detroit’s recent near collapse I’ve been trying to draw some parallels with the general state of affairs in this country. Many of you on Free Republic are quite in tune with self-sufficiency- perhaps this may ring a bell with you.
Detroit started losing me about the time I came of age to drive, 1975. I grew up helping my dad do maintenance and minor repairs on 60’s cars. Later I owned some 50’s vintage stuff. Unfortunately, I have owned many more recently made vehicles ( none newer than 1994) . I purchased one new vehicle in 1978. These are the issues I see:
* Needless complexity. Superfluous gee gaws that add nothing to functionality, and only complicate diagnosis. I was raised to believe you need 3 gauges- oil pressure, water temperature and a voltmeter. I’ll add a vacuum gauge for you mileage people. If I know the status of those 3 readings, I can shut her down before anything bad happens.
* Assembly line mindset. Cars built to go together on the line and not repaired or dismantled in any other sequence. Many foul words would never have been invented had the end user and mechanic been consulted. The “factory special tool” industry would not have gotten off the ground.
* Lack of Retro/cross-compatibility. In the frenzy to replace models and offer new looks and features, far too many parts become obsolete and un-updateable or interchangeable. In my opinion, Chevrolet/GM in the old days had a much better handle on this than Ford or Mopar. Nobody gets a medal now.
* Mickey Mouse Plastic Bullshit. How many little plastic things, connectors, etc. have you broken trying to figure out how to take the damn thing apart? How about power windows that quit because of a 2 cent plastic piece? I’d pay a dollar or two more for a real fitting.
* Diagnostics that don’t Diagnose Crap. Most of the time, the problem is a faulty sensor, rather than a true problem. Often, when you have a true problem, like a bad ignition module, it won’t send a code. What’s up with that?
* Dealer Support. They’ve driven us to the O’Reillys, Pep Boys and junk yards of the nation. The dealers do exactly zip for you if you’re not under warranty. Unless you want to pay their outrageous overhead, which I will not. Don’t source parts from them. You can buy a whole wreck cheaper.
My rant is over, for now. Detroit started to blow it with the automatic choke. It was all down hill from there for the do it yourselfer!
The Russians and the Chinese aren't this foolish, IMHO.
Extra points for rhyming. :-)
1973 for me.
I have found that dealers are often ignorant of older models. One Dodge dealership could not do a front end alignment on a Dodge Dart. A Chrysler dealership, despite my warning, confused my car, a rwd V-8 Chrysler 5th Avenue, With the FWD-4/6 cyl Chrysler New Yorker (which had a trim line called Fifth Avenue).
Amen. I drive "Check Engine " lights into the ground.
I appreciate your well thought out post; I stopped buying “detroit” products because they were basically junk. My last one was a 2001 corvette. I sold it to a friend of mine, it had 8000 miles on it in 2005. It was a complete disaster for him. And 8000 miles is correct, not 80,000.
1970 for me, probably.
I guess if you want a car that pukes fumes, gets crappy gas mileage, boils over in the summer and needs an oil change every 3k miles, you should stick to your beliefs.
Most of the time it's the sensor? You mean like O2 sensors that tell the engine how rich or lean to make the mixture based on the current air temperature and pressure? Other than that, most OBD computers are really good at nailing down the problem.
Plastics? You mean your dash that doesn't crack in the Arizona heat any longer or the interior doesn't impale your face in a crash?
I don't have any problem working on older cars if that's your thing, but I drive a 265hp 4cyl that gets 25mph and corners on rails, all of it due to the items you enumerated above.
I gave up on GM when a $2.00 bad switch on a automatic shifting mechinism could not be replaced. whole thing had to be replaced @ $400.00. Pontiac RIP.
Extra points for you, too.
I agree. I would be happy with a sturdy functional vehicle that I could work on with basic hand tools. Planned obsolescence, safety standards, EPA compliance, and needless crap make me not want to buy a new car again, ever.
I can agree with a lot of this. We have a lot of nostalga for Detroit muscle and trucks, but the fact of the matter is, I just see a big difference in quality when it comes to your average cars. I understand a LOT of this is due to government regulations, having to put so many safety or environmental gadgets and doo-dads into the cars to meet whatever standard that they forget the driver. There, however, is just a simple quality difference as well.
Just sit in a BMW 1 series or a similarly priced Chevy Impala. Yes, the BMW is smaller, but the overall fit and finish is miles ahead, as is the power- all for the same price.
It is that low to mid priced range vehicle we are losing. Even some of the econo boxes in Europe and Japan have a tightly made car whereas some US cars in the same price seem glued together.
When it comes to performance vehicles, the comparison is tighter but you still notice the difference in fit and finish. A Chevy Covette is a beautiful vehicle but sit in it and then a Porsche 911 Carerra and you won’t sit in a Vette again unless you just have an emotional attachment. (Albeit, I do have an emotional attachment to the latter myself)
I love my wife's Cayenne, it has what is known as a PCM (a fancy all-in-one display, that, instead of giving you a check engine light, can give diagnostic info showing specifically what the issue is and solution (such as if it is an air flow sensor suggests replacing a filter).. I haven't had a chance to really test it out, but if it is good as the manual says, could save a ton on plugging it in and reading it like I have spent on my H3.
I don’t believe the constant changes that prevent interchangeability of parts was an accident; they don’t want you going to the junkyard. They need you to replace your car every 3-5 years, or they’re out of business (which is exactly what happened; people bought Japanese and European cars that lasted 10+ years, and that was the end of Detroit). I just got rid of an American minivan that wasn’t ten years old but behaved like a 30 year old POS; when I looked online, I saw many (formers) owners had junked theirs with significantly less mileage than I had for the same problem (transmission was shot). The only good American “cars” are those that cost about $10K brand new; you could pay $18K for the same performance with a different “American” car.
“I drive “Check Engine” lights into the ground.”
Exactly; that would be first and foremost in a list of “you might be driving an American car” jokes...
“...European fairies...”
The Europeans who do not elect Muslims to run their countries? The Europeans who have not allowed mu*lims to take over their intelligence agencies, govt and put sleepers in their military to massacre their own troops?
The Europeans who do not watch TV where all the 6 networks have Islamic investors/sharholders (Fox is 7% owned by the Saudi kings nephew), joint ventures and multibillion business deals. The idiots who lap it all up to watch ball games while the networks conpire for sharia in the USA. In between the “stupid white man” commercials?
Sadly idiots who watch TV in America gave away liberty for a clicker.
Cool.
You haul hay, fertilizer and cattle with that 4 cylinder?
I have nothing against fuel injection, TBI or direct. I have nothing against sensors.
I keep about 10 vehicles, 2 tractors, several pieces of farm equipment balers, mowers, etc. going and work a full-time day job.
You gotta eat, right?
I don’t know. The fit and finish on a 2010 Ford Fusion or Mercury Milan is pretty damn good. I have seen new BMW 3-series that do not match up or the FordMoCo blows away those Baby Obama/UAW Cadddylax.
BINGO, planned obsolescence. It is planned into everything from the paint to the carpeting. It looks good for the short term but it is dirt cheap on the front in (manufacturing side) but like most cheap things, it isn't made to last. When you think about it, and keep your eyes open, on the roads you'll either see mostly cars that are 10 years old or less or 20 years or more. There is a magic window where the cheapos are too expensive to repair and the decent cars people want to keep for a long time. How many 1990s model Ford Taurus do you see on the road now even though they were the best selling cars for a while?
You are correct. There is something about the Fords in the past couple of years that you have a point about. I remember a few years ago mentioning that Fords in the US were nothing like Europe (the Mondeo in particular), but they seem to have brought those standards over here. I haven’t had a chance to get one as a rental, but a couple of the new mid sized Fords (Fusion I guess) look pretty tight on the outside. There is a Mercury Milan in our office parking lot I walk by and the interior reminds me of an Audi. Maybe there is hope.
(it would be the one non-government motor company).
You and I both still speak English, I notice.
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