Posted on 08/09/2010 11:50:12 PM PDT by NY Hockey Mom
“I wonder if you and I are both speaking in the past tense though - the modern male is a little more stressed out and wishing the women in his life were a little more self sufficient that way.”
Maybe. Can’t really say because I’m not a “modern man.” A bit more old school. Some “modern women” don’t like that, which is fine with me...
Actually, it is much more dangerous to be a man in life, it is just that men carry on and continue to go where they want to and do what they want, but they pay with their lives and and the brutality of violent assaults (think bar violence and street robberies). Nothing is safer than being a white female in America.
"Based on 2004 supplemental homicide data (where the age, sex, or race of the murder victims were known), 90.2 percent of murder victims were adults and 9.8 percent of the victims were juveniles. Of the total number of homicide victims, 78.0 percent were male and 22.0 percent were female."
Thank you for the info. I’d add though that women have a higher percentage of rapes. When I was attending college somewhere - the men could go jogging on the rural trails and the women were accused of ‘asking for it’ if they did the same.
There are men who love women who love men.
There are women who love women every now and then.
There are men who love men, because they can't pretend, that they're men who love women who love men.
Believe it or not that is in dispute, several studies say that male rape is more common. Many studies including the US Air Force study, conclude that female rape is largely, and perhaps much more than 50%, false claims.
That doesn’t match my experiences talking with women. Too many times I’ve watched the woman seated across from me turn grey and start staring at the dinner table and begin to try to say the words. I myself have survived about 4 attempted rapes. One in which I was willing to cause both of us to fall 30 feet to get away from my attacker, and almost did so, one in which I decided to throw a cup of hot tea in the face of my predator as we both rushed to the door - with me willing to go back out into the white out I was originally lost in the first place, one in which the attacker used crushing force to drive my shoulders into my earlobes with such force that my pierced earrings were driven deep into my neck/lower skull, and one in which I literally stared down ‘The Stockton Rapist’ (some women never walked away from that guy) and take it from me...those guys really are the cowards that some people say they are. I wish I could get the sound of the woman next door begging for her life outta my head (Stockton, CA) and the sound of her attacker laughing like evil. I will grant you that some rapes are false accusations but I have also spoken with women who never reported theirs.
When I proposed to take my car to a car wash across town, a man visiting another member of my household sneered “OK BUT YOU ARE JUST ASKING TO BE RAPED...” Yeah, nice guy. People don’t say that to men. I think our culture’s idea that women are more likely to be raped is accurate. I think the perception that women are raped in distressingly high numbers is probably correct, I agree that some rapes are false accusations - but I doubt it’s 50%. I wonder how high the percentage is of male rape - especially if you factor in prison systems.
Never base facts and statistics on personal conversations and limited personal experiences, look for factual studies.
People advise women not to put themselves at risk because all people, male and female are more protective of women and are largely indifferent to the death and maiming of men.
Women are the majority of the population and don’t even reach 25% of the homicides, can you imagine how the nation and government would react if women suddenly became 53% of the homicides in America?
This is a free country, women can walk out the door and go to the same places as men, but they don’t because they do not want to suffer the same consequences that the male sex takes in stride.
I have a science background and therefore do not base facts and statistics on personal conversations and anecdotal information. I offered those instances in support of all the studies I have read that state that rape is under reported. I didn’t mention those studies because you have already stated that you believe studies indicate rape is over reported.
I don’t believe men take rape/murder ‘in stride’.
I don’t know anyone personally who is indifferent to maiming and murder of men.
I can see that we must agree to disagree.
This is the quote "This is a free country, women can walk out the door and go to the same places as men, but they don’t because they do not want to suffer the same consequences that the male sex takes in stride."
Men take the consequences in stride by taking the risks of opening the door and going out into that world, rather than staying away from the risky areas.
When someone says that a bar is too dangerous, or a neighborhood is too dangerous, or a street too dangerous, I guarantee you that all of those places have plenty of men, and plenty of men die and are maimed there and they remain undeterred.
Here is some basic info on rape, this is from the liberal, feminist, Salon magazine, but it gives you a hint of what is out there.
"Measuring false allegations is all the more difficult since policies on unfounded complaints differ between jurisdictions. A Washington Post investigation in Virginia and Maryland found that nearly one in four rape reports in 1990-91 was unfounded. When contacted by the newspaper, many "victims" admitted they lied. More shocking figures come from a study by now-retired Purdue University sociologist Eugene Kanin published in Archives of Sexual Behavior in 1994. After reviewing the police records of an Indiana town, Kanin found that of 109 reports of rape filed in 1978-87, 45 -- or 41 percent -- turned out to be false, as the women themselves admitted after the investigation."
http://www.salon.com/news/1999/03/cov_10news.html
Here is another mention of studies.
"Although useful, the F.B.I. and DNA data on sex crimes result from unstructured number gathering. More informative, therefore, are the results of a focused study of the false allegation question undertaken by a team headed by Charles P McDowell (McDowell & Hibler, 1985) of the U.S. Air Force Special Studies Division. Its significance derives not only from its scholarly credentials but also its time of origin, 1984/85, a period during which rape had emerged as a major issue, but before its definition included almost any form of non-consensual sex.
The McDowell team studied 556 rape allegations. Of that total, 256 could not be conclusively verified as rape. That left 300 authenticated cases of which 220 were judged to be truthful and 80, or 27%, were judged as false. In his report Charles McDowell stated that extra rigor was applied to the investigation of potentially false allegations. To be considered false one or more of the following criteria had to be met: the victim unequivocally admitted to false allegation, indicated deception in a polygraph test, and provided a plausible recantation. Even by these strict standards, slightly more than one out of four rape charges were judged to be false.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume6/j6_2_4.htm
-I feel your argument ignores basics of the human condition. Women are targets because they are, on average, 40% weaker than men. If you believe that an assailant is indifferent to the strength of his prey and would therefore not choose a target likely to be much weaker than he over one that is likely closer his own strength then there is nothing I can say but that we disagree.
If you believe that men throughout time have shown no greater rate of violence toward women than that of women toward men then again - we must disagree.
Your data is scientifically lacking. You have identified some small anamolies (data that runs counter to police work and military history i.e conquering nations raping the women of the conquered nation) and said they give a ‘hint’ at what is out there. I would said that these are non-random, samples of insufficient size and validity contain little if any real information.
109 rapes is, although a human tragedy, a completely unacceptable sample size. The methodology is not even discussed - we are to just trust it without review.
You cite: “556 rape allegations. Of that total, 256 could not be conclusively verified as rape.” Did you take this to mean that these cases were not rape? Because that is not what is stated. ‘Conclusively verified’ has always been the hurdle women face and it is why they often don’t report or or don’t face a courtroom - it’s often her word against his as a man raping a woman makes an effort not to be seen by others. This is a key issue with reporting rapes - recently I recall reading of a Middle Eastern country that declared that a woman reporting a rape was guilty of adultry unless she could produce a male relative who witnessed the rape. WHEN would that ever happen? The nature of rape is secrecy. The rapist, like Polanski, can easily assert that it was consensual. Knowing the humiliating accusations heading their way - women sometimes avoid reporting rapes or recant afterwards once they have already had a ‘taste’ of the criminal justice system and rightly judge that justice is out of their reach. That study of 556 rape allegations was undertaken by the military. Was it performed on a military population? Because that may well introduce a significant bias factor unacceptable in an objective study. Outside studies tend to be more objective than asking an organization to study and report on it’s own behavior. Sexual assault complaints, like sexual harrassment complaints, do not look good on a military record. No methodology is given.
The only reason these little studies seem to be pointed to is because they go against conventional wisdom comprised of much larger data sets over a longer period of time with greater access to methodology. The federal government collects such statistics as do local and state governments. I recall recently that Chicago was being lambasted for bragging that rapes went down when in fact the police department stopped recording complaints the way they had in the past. It was now up to the discretion of one office whether he believed a woman reporting a rape or not. If she didn’t convince him - he just didn’t write it down. Hard to know what the real false rape report data is but the studies you cited are not persuasive (IMHO) and seem to fly in the face of human history, conventional wisdom, and national studies.
Men are, due to testosterone, more agressive than women, more prone to killing others, raping others - than women (although some women really seem to be trying to ‘catch up’). Men work in some very dangerous fields closed to women. For example, our country does not formally allow women in combat. The Alaskan fisheries deck crews tend to be male due to the need to lift or haul 100 pounds plus etc. This didn’t keep me from ‘going out the door and assuming the risks that men do’ (I worked in Alaskan fisheries) but it kept me safter. My inability to lift 100+ pounds barred me from the most hazardous work out there. Fire crews contain more men because women frequently fail the test where one has to to drag and place an extended ladder, drag a 100lb bag (to simulate rescue) etc. It’s not merely women choosing to avoid consequences, and it is not a matter of indifference when men are maimed and killed.
I don’t want to wade through your long narratives, are you staying with your original claim that men are safer in society, or are you admitting that you were mistaken about that?
I refuted your scientific studies and commented that we will have to agree to disagree if you believe that an assailant does not care whether his prey is likely to be as strong as he is or 40% weaker (on average, as are women).
In other words, you are wrong.
I wasn’t aware of that.
Almost 80% of murder victims are male, yet you think the females are the ones in being killed?
Aggravated assault, armed robbery, simple assault, men are much more likely to be victims than female.
Source: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Key Facts at a Glance, “Violent Victimization Rates by Gender, 1973-2001, September 2002, available online at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables.
Read more: Violent Crime - Victims Of Violent Crimes — Most Are Men - Women, Rate, Rates, Victimization, 2001, and 000 http://social.jrank.org/pages/1254/Violent-Crime-Victims-Violent-Crimes-Most-Are-Men.html#ixzz0wGglzH1y
By the way, the safest people of all are white females, yet where would Hollywood and the media be without portraying them as victims.
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