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To: ransomnote
I don’t believe men take rape/murder ‘in stride’.

This is the quote "This is a free country, women can walk out the door and go to the same places as men, but they don’t because they do not want to suffer the same consequences that the male sex takes in stride."

Men take the consequences in stride by taking the risks of opening the door and going out into that world, rather than staying away from the risky areas.

When someone says that a bar is too dangerous, or a neighborhood is too dangerous, or a street too dangerous, I guarantee you that all of those places have plenty of men, and plenty of men die and are maimed there and they remain undeterred.

Here is some basic info on rape, this is from the liberal, feminist, Salon magazine, but it gives you a hint of what is out there.

"Measuring false allegations is all the more difficult since policies on unfounded complaints differ between jurisdictions. A Washington Post investigation in Virginia and Maryland found that nearly one in four rape reports in 1990-91 was unfounded. When contacted by the newspaper, many "victims" admitted they lied. More shocking figures come from a study by now-retired Purdue University sociologist Eugene Kanin published in Archives of Sexual Behavior in 1994. After reviewing the police records of an Indiana town, Kanin found that of 109 reports of rape filed in 1978-87, 45 -- or 41 percent -- turned out to be false, as the women themselves admitted after the investigation."
http://www.salon.com/news/1999/03/cov_10news.html

Here is another mention of studies.

"Although useful, the F.B.I. and DNA data on sex crimes result from unstructured number gathering. More informative, therefore, are the results of a focused study of the false allegation question undertaken by a team headed by Charles P McDowell (McDowell & Hibler, 1985) of the U.S. Air Force Special Studies Division. Its significance derives not only from its scholarly credentials but also its time of origin, 1984/85, a period during which rape had emerged as a major issue, but before its definition included almost any form of non-consensual sex.

The McDowell team studied 556 rape allegations. Of that total, 256 could not be conclusively verified as rape. That left 300 authenticated cases of which 220 were judged to be truthful and 80, or 27%, were judged as false. In his report Charles McDowell stated that extra rigor was applied to the investigation of potentially false allegations. To be considered false one or more of the following criteria had to be met: the victim unequivocally admitted to false allegation, indicated deception in a polygraph test, and provided a plausible recantation. Even by these strict standards, slightly more than one out of four rape charges were judged to be false.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume6/j6_2_4.htm

29 posted on 08/10/2010 7:07:47 PM PDT by ansel12 (Mitt: "I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush")
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To: ansel12

-I feel your argument ignores basics of the human condition. Women are targets because they are, on average, 40% weaker than men. If you believe that an assailant is indifferent to the strength of his prey and would therefore not choose a target likely to be much weaker than he over one that is likely closer his own strength then there is nothing I can say but that we disagree.
If you believe that men throughout time have shown no greater rate of violence toward women than that of women toward men then again - we must disagree.
Your data is scientifically lacking. You have identified some small anamolies (data that runs counter to police work and military history i.e conquering nations raping the women of the conquered nation) and said they give a ‘hint’ at what is out there. I would said that these are non-random, samples of insufficient size and validity contain little if any real information.
109 rapes is, although a human tragedy, a completely unacceptable sample size. The methodology is not even discussed - we are to just trust it without review.

You cite: “556 rape allegations. Of that total, 256 could not be conclusively verified as rape.” Did you take this to mean that these cases were not rape? Because that is not what is stated. ‘Conclusively verified’ has always been the hurdle women face and it is why they often don’t report or or don’t face a courtroom - it’s often her word against his as a man raping a woman makes an effort not to be seen by others. This is a key issue with reporting rapes - recently I recall reading of a Middle Eastern country that declared that a woman reporting a rape was guilty of adultry unless she could produce a male relative who witnessed the rape. WHEN would that ever happen? The nature of rape is secrecy. The rapist, like Polanski, can easily assert that it was consensual. Knowing the humiliating accusations heading their way - women sometimes avoid reporting rapes or recant afterwards once they have already had a ‘taste’ of the criminal justice system and rightly judge that justice is out of their reach. That study of 556 rape allegations was undertaken by the military. Was it performed on a military population? Because that may well introduce a significant bias factor unacceptable in an objective study. Outside studies tend to be more objective than asking an organization to study and report on it’s own behavior. Sexual assault complaints, like sexual harrassment complaints, do not look good on a military record. No methodology is given.
The only reason these little studies seem to be pointed to is because they go against conventional wisdom comprised of much larger data sets over a longer period of time with greater access to methodology. The federal government collects such statistics as do local and state governments. I recall recently that Chicago was being lambasted for bragging that rapes went down when in fact the police department stopped recording complaints the way they had in the past. It was now up to the discretion of one office whether he believed a woman reporting a rape or not. If she didn’t convince him - he just didn’t write it down. Hard to know what the real false rape report data is but the studies you cited are not persuasive (IMHO) and seem to fly in the face of human history, conventional wisdom, and national studies.
Men are, due to testosterone, more agressive than women, more prone to killing others, raping others - than women (although some women really seem to be trying to ‘catch up’). Men work in some very dangerous fields closed to women. For example, our country does not formally allow women in combat. The Alaskan fisheries deck crews tend to be male due to the need to lift or haul 100 pounds plus etc. This didn’t keep me from ‘going out the door and assuming the risks that men do’ (I worked in Alaskan fisheries) but it kept me safter. My inability to lift 100+ pounds barred me from the most hazardous work out there. Fire crews contain more men because women frequently fail the test where one has to to drag and place an extended ladder, drag a 100lb bag (to simulate rescue) etc. It’s not merely women choosing to avoid consequences, and it is not a matter of indifference when men are maimed and killed.


30 posted on 08/10/2010 9:08:03 PM PDT by ransomnote
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