Posted on 06/25/2010 11:32:39 AM PDT by nysuperdoodle
Those are just allegations, anybody can allege anything. The story as a whole just doesn’t make sense. Welfare check calls don’t get responded to by a dozen cops. Somebody is fibbing.
The temp of oxy-acet cutting is about 5K deg F when you get that nice blue center flame that is about 1/2 inch long. I did that for a year building airport support equipment.
In RVN, getting VD was not a punishable offense, but units were rated on their VD rate. After many other attempts at reducing VD other ways, we set up a battalion whorehouse;, “The Tay Ninh Tickle House.”
The girls were all confined to the compound and had to wait three days before seeing a customer if they went outside the wire. When they returned, they all got prophylactic penicillin in the butt.
Prices were fair, the VD rate got to near zero, and we made lots of money off the ‘Legs from the Big Red One!
Well Ok, I can see where you’re coming from. There are situations where we really should be able to trust medical and civil professionals, even those who are govt workers, to do their job. But this does lead into what I was bringing up before about how police sometimes seem increasingly less trustworthy. If this kind of crap happens when someone dials 911 for medical help, who even knows what would happen when someone dials 911 to actually defend themselves from a bandit or gang member or other such danger.
The point about the “us vs them” mentality is interesting, and something I should learn more about because I did not know much about it, but I still suspect there is fear of being insensitive to certain people that leads police to ridiculously treat all types of suspects as equally threatening no matter how much logic it defies.
Usually (at least around here), when you dial 911 they ask you who you need - police, fire, ambulance. I find it difficult to believe that they would send a dozen cops to a medical call. Unless the meds granny was suspected of not taking were anti-psychotics or something. Then maybe they do respond with police.
Which reinforces the advice that you never call 911 to help you with a mentally challenged or mentally ill loved one. Cops show up, and when all you have is a gun, everything looks like a target.
Well, the only people saying she was an invalid unarmed woman are the people suing. She could well be, it could all be true, but so far I don’t see independent confirmation.
I presume there is a police report that, if we read it, would show what the police are trying to allege. My guess is that it wouldn’t help them much if it says they tazed her, because most of us can’t buy the idea that an 86-yo could be dangerous enough to need tazing.
But, I think there are hypothetical explanations that might make this make sense.
Suppose the police weren’t there because the guy called, but because they were investigating something. Suppose the boy isn’t clean as a whistle, maybe he had a weapon. Suppose they were going to taze him, not the old lady. Suppose the old lady isn’t quite as invalid as described, and she grabbed the officer. Suppose while she wasn’t dangerous to them, she was thrashing and ripping out her tubes or being a danger to herself, or the boy was also getting involved.
Maybe in that instance the police felt tazing her was the best way to get the situation under control. Or maybe they tried to taze the boy and she got in the way.
Like I said, there’s not enough information in this story and the lawsuit to know what happened, and my speculation is likely off-base. I’m just saying that so long as I can conceive of a scenario that matches the facts we KNOW about that would justify the actions of the police, I’m not ready to convict them yet — but I am certainly leaning that way.
Here is why I’m having trouble with this story.
There is a lot on the web about it this past week. Which makes sense, since the lawsuit was just filed.
This incident took place supposedly on December 22, 2009, in El Reno, Oklahoma.
But so far, I can’t find any reference to it on any online Oklahoma news sites. I would expect that some newspaper would have covered this story in December of 2009.
I’m still looking though.
Went back to the story to find out where you read that there was a “roomful of pure oxygen” to no avail. Can you point out where it was?
I would think that if the room was a pure oxygen atmosphere, then it would not have made any difference if the police stepped on her O2 tube or not.
I also do not understand your comment about “pure oxygen can produce a fast moving and welding hot fire”. Oxygen by itself is not combustible, it SUPPORTS combustion. You can have “a spark in a roomful of pure oxygen” all day long without consequence if there is no combustible material in the room.
Last thing, you say the “O2 bottles will be be oxidixed (sp) too. Stainless steel will be the only thing left”. Does this mean that the 1/8” steel bottles would be so throughly rusted that they would turn to powder? or maybe that they would just burn up when the O2 fire got “welding-hot”?
confused in seattle
Next time, put the lawyers on the bus first. (Cue the "what do you call a busload of lawyers plunging off a cliff into the sea?" joke...)
(sound of grey_whiskers purring)
El Reno police said they were forced to taser an 86-year-old El Reno woman last week who was threatening to kill herself and threatened officers with a knife.No mention that the woman is on oxygen. The son called to report an overdose, NOT to say she wasn't taking medication. She was trying to kill herself, and threatened them with a knife. She doesn't sound like an invalid either.The incident occurred Dec. 22 at the Elizabeth Place Apartments, 1955 S. Shephard, said Police Chief Ken Brown. Brown said the woman's grandson telephoned police asking for help for his grandmother, who he said was threatening to overdose on medication. The chief said when officers arrived, they found the woman lying on a bed. He said when the woman saw the officers she ordered them out of her home and told them that she “wanted to die.”
Brown said the woman pulled a kitchen knife and told officers “she was in control of her life.” Brown said officers then tasered the woman and took the knife. Brown said the woman was taken to Parkview Hospital where the tasers were removed and she was admitted to a mental health center.
Now, who do we believe? That's for you to decide. One side sounds like a reasonable story, the lawsuit makes no sense (10 cops for a medical emergency? No, but a few cops for a woman trying to kill herself makes sense.
See my post just above this one, with an article from a local paper around the time of the incident.
In that article, the grandmother is not mentioned as being invalid, the boy reports her as trying to overdose, she threatens police with a knife and threatens to kill herself, and then they taser her and put her in a psych ward.
It makes more sense than the allegations in the lawsuit.
Yeah that’s more the kind of call that brings a dozen cops ready to taze somebody.
The El Reno PD only has 30 officers. So how did they have the staffing to send thirteen to a sick case? Maybe if the call came right at shift change all the command staff and detectives went as well but this is not likely.
They wouldn’t send thirteen even if the call was for emotionally disturbed person with knife....
Everything burns and is oxidized in a pure O2 atmosphere.
Not sure what chlorine, flourine or Al Queda has to do with the discussion, but I did find this on Wikipedia (yea I know):
“The oxygen burning process is a set of nuclear fusion reactions that take place in massive stars that have used up the lighter elements in their cores. It occurs at temperatures around 1.5×109 K / 130 KeV and densities of 1010 kg/m3. “
Didn’t read in the story that there was nuclear fusion or a massive star anywhere near the room in question.
Also found this at the DOE:
“Question - I hope you can settle an argument. My friend claims that oxygen is combustable and I say it is not but has to be present for a fuel to burn. No fuel, no fire. Who’s correct?
You win. Technically, combustion (burning) occurs when a substance reacts with oxygen to produce combustion (oxidation) products. Since oxygen atoms cannot react with themselves to produce anything except oxygen molecues or ozone molecules, oxygen does not burn. The nature of the reaction when oxygen forms ozone is different from the electron transfer which occurs in traditional oxidation. Therefore it would be splitting a hair to say that because oxygen atoms can form ozone molecules, oxygen has been oxidized (burned). Thus, I am on your side — oxygen does not burn. It merely supports combustion.
Regards,
ProfHoff”
I also disagree with your last statement, EVERYTHING does NOT burn in a pure oxygen atmosphere. I would agree that everything COMBUSTABLE burns in a pure oxygen atmosphere. Steel (as in the O2 tank) is NOT combustible and would not burn.
Did you have a big city public school education?
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