Posted on 06/18/2010 5:25:32 PM PDT by Travis McGee
Okay, this wasn't a bench-by-bench comparison. But I did shoot one rifle last week at my range, and the other rifle today at a guest range. Both ranges are in Florida, if you care, on opposite coasts.
Both rifles were comparable M-4gerys. Top end or close to to top end. (Not junk.) Similar stocks, barrels, etc. I'm not going to mention the makes, because it's not the point of my essay tonight. Trust me, both are fine, fine rifles that are capable of greater accuracy than I ever will lend to them.
Okay. Rifle #1 sports a 1 power EOTech sight and a compensator/muzzle brake. The EOTech's 1X aiming point is a one minute of angle red dot, surrounded by a red circle. If you have read this far, you already know this.
Rifle #2 sports a 4X Trijicon ACOG and a flash suppressor. The ACOG's reticle is an orange triangle, the aiming point is the top tip. In both cases I was shooting from a bench and offhand at 100 yards at standard 100 yard NRA targets. These are about 2 feet square, with about a 10" black bullseye graduated with rings. I wasn't counting scores, but initial sighting-in groups, and then offhand effectiveness.
Impressions: the Trijicon is the finest sight I've ever shot on a combat carbine, period. Bar none. Better by far than my EOTech, Aimpoints (4 minute of angle red dots) and various other optical and electronic sights I have used. Off a rest, the Trijicon was shooting a sub 2" group, and I suck at bench rest shooting. I cannot get my EOTech to shoot that well, even though it has a 1 MOA red dot, mainly because my "over 50" eyes are starting to slip, maybe. The best bench groups I could get with the EOTech were about 4". The 4X Trijicon brought that 10" bull in sharp and clear. The triangle top reticle is like a surgeon's scalpel. Sub 2" bench groups were easy. Yet it's also bright and fast and "intuitive."
Bench rest verdict: Trijicon wins, hands down.
Standing, offhand. To get a little realism into the comparison, I shot identical NRA targets offhand, "semi-rapid fire." A combat carbine is about shooting with speed while running around and trying not to get shot. Bench rest performance is just step one. Standing offhand with both rifles/sights, I could really kill that 10" bull at 100 yards. The 1 MOA EOTech is easily centered. Offhand, both rifles and scopes were far better than the shooter, me. But to be truthful, semi-rapid fire standing, and going through entire 30 round mags to simulate realistic fatigue, I found it much easier to stay "all in the black" with the Trijicon. That 4X triangle is just so damn good. And it has built-in stadia steps under the triangle for 400 and 600 yards. I'd hate to be a Taliban with ten Marines chasing me with M-16 A3 mounted with Trijicons!
Offhand accuracy at 100 yards: Trijicon wins again.
Second discussion: flash suppressor vs. muzzle brake. One area where I must give credit to my own M-4gery with the EOTech is due to its brake/compensator. Yes, the 5.56mm "mouse gun" does not have much recoil. Yes, your ten year old little sister can shoot it without crying. BUT, my muzzle brake/compensator makes a fast rifle even faster. The Trijicon with the flash suppressor was more accurate, but just a bit slower than the EOTech with the brake. The Trijicon/flash suppressor would jump off of the target just enough between semi-rapid fire shots to force you to "re-acquire" the bull on the triangle.
But my EOTech with the compensator (no holes on the bottom, for zero "muzzle flip" means that my 1moa EOTech red dot stays dead-tits on the center of the bull between shots. If the ranges allowed true rapid fire, I'm sure that's when the brake would really shine. (No 'one second per shot rule'.) With the brake you can just nail your target all the way through a magazine, with both eyes open, never ever losing your point of aim even for a nanosecond.
But with no magnification, the EOTech just could not maximize the accuracy the way the Trijicon did.
My recommendation for the deadliest combo? Put a Trijicon on top of your M-4gery, and a muzzle brake/compensator on the front. Then you will be able to attack targets like a damn sewing machine! Who needs full auto, when you can just DRILL a target at 100 yards as fast as you can shoot?
I wish I was still out west at a "free range" gravel pit where I could put this theory to the test. But our Eastern RSO's just don't like hearing 30 round mags go out in under 30 seconds.
Now, everybody enjoy. I'm going out to dinner with my wife.
I hope we never have to find the answers to these questions.
I pointed out this thread to my son, and he made the very good point that a more fair comparison might be a 4X ACOG vs. an EOTech with the Aimpoint 3X magnifier add on optics that are widely available now. If nothing else, it’s a great idea for a future comparison. Plus, if you already have an EOTech, it might be a way to get to 90+% of the functionality of the ACOG with a fraction of the expenditure.
Here’s a thread with this sort of setup.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=680317
If you put a magnifier behind an EOTech, I don’t see where you would put a back up iron sight. Your pocket, with quick releases on both?
No worries. Go with the ELCAN C79/C79A2, and that's the wat the reticle is set up.
These lads seem to like the ELCANs on their C8s... and the Ozzies in the sandbox are using the C79 on their AusSteyers too, as well as the Army and Marine units with them on the M240 MG as the M145 scope, with a slightly different MG reticle.
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I’d love to try them all, but I’m sticking with EOTech for now.
Not sure, and good point.
I guess you’d need a really looooong top rail.
ixnay on the quick releases, I’m thinking.
Hey, if trhey work for you, go for it. But I like not having to worry about battery changes for 10 years....
Some folks totally have faith in the quick releases to return to zero. I’m not fond of loose critical gear though. But since I can’t see any engagements in my future past 300 yards with that platform, I think the speed of the EOTech is a high priority.
BTW, I’ve seen little stick-on rings for a “back up ghost sight” that you stick on the rear glass of your electronic sight if it goes down. You’d have to zero it somehow, but it looked neat.
I can buy a lot of batteries for the price difference between what an EOTech costs and some of the high-dollar sights. The EOTech turns itself off after a few hours if you don’t touch a button, that takes care of the number one cause of dead batteries (being left on).
I've seen some troops without a flip-up BUIS mount the entite top carry handle and rear sight assembly on the bottom handguard rail of their M4s/M16A3s, just in case their day optic went south.
It looks a little clunky, and I'd have some doubts about how close to zero the handle is when it goes back on, but hey, if that's what you're issued and it's the best you can go with, go with it.
I have a very slim, light Magpul BUIS on the back of my rail. A very critical item for me is to keep easy traditional method access to the charging handle. That is, a standard handle grasped with the right ring and middle fingers. I’ve seen scopes and BUIS’s that really block easy access to the charging handle and I think that’s a big mistake. The answer seems to be heavy-duty handles with big lugs haninging out to the left side, for smacking back with the left hand, but I’m too old a dog to learn that new trick.
bookmark
Damn good gear for that era .... hell I wouldn’t like to go up against it today...
XM-177 / GAU5 or 5/AA with that single point OEG from Normark is classic high speed low drag snakeater stuff back then....:o)
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