Posted on 12/22/2009 10:45:51 AM PST by Patriot1259
...the federal, rather central, government is a train wreck that is on its way to happen, and we, all of us, are passengers on that fated train. Like passengers on a train headed too fast for a curve in the track, we can (at least most of us can) see the impending danger in front of us, and most have a strong suspicion that we will not survive the coming wreck. We are also afraid to jump off of the doomed train for fear that we will be hurt when we make our exit. There may be rough ground outside and we may suffer pain and injury. It seems we would all rather take our chances with a train that we know will most likely take us to our end. Such is the human condition.
(Excerpt) Read more at thecypresstimes.com ...
This one will not be between the States. I think it will occur as civilians fight other civilians. Capitalism vs. Communism.
If Texas were to become a Republic, we would have stricter border enforcement than the United States currently has.
So therefore, we would seal our border not only with Mexico, but also with the United States.
Illegal Aliens will be unwelcome in The Republic of Texas.
Probably? Shoot, Oklahoma will probably be the first to pick the fight with the feds.
Lotta folks round there had great-grandads/great-great-grandads that fought war against the fed-gov, and lived. Nuthin new to them...
“I think that there is a strong possibility that Texas and some of the other states will simply refuse to comply with this Obama care and Cap and Tax insanity. If that happens, the fun begins in earnest. “
You are exactly right.
I predict that there will be as many states that refuse to comply with Obama Care as there were states that refused to comply with Medicare.
“How to get TX citizenship???!”
You won’t as the Republic of Texas will actually have strong immigration laws and tough border security.
As far as we are concerned the people swimming over the Red River, Sabine River, or Rio Grande will all be the same.
There would be no need to seal the border with Mexico. Crimmigrants would not want to come to Texas if there were no free handouts from the government. They would choose to avoid the Republic of Texas and head for the Socialist States of America.
You are absolutely correct!!!!! I am always correcting people of this fact.
Ok, the way I see it, there is an ill wind blowing for sure. I am waiting to see what happens. I am willing to do my part and what that part is I have no idea.
Something is coming. Everybody feels it both on the left and right.
Excuse my babbling.
Save room in Texas for most of us Alaskans.
I think Texas secession is a fine idea.
But before anyone goes and gets all excited over the possibility, ask yourself this question: am I, personally, willing to shoot and kill an American soldier or Marine?
Don’t ask such a question lightly. Put yourself in the situation where you, with your own finger, have to pull the trigger on a man wearing the uniform of the United States armed forces — a man with a family, who speaks the same language you do, watches sports on TV, has a kid in college. Can you do it? Can you live with it afterwards?
At the same time, ask yourself how you would feel about seeing your town occupied by troops and placed under martial law. Imagine every newspaper, television network, and major website in the world aligned against you. Imagine your kids going hungry, spending their days in hiding, dodging bombs and bullets. Imagine no gasoline at any price. Imagine no cars, no motorcycles, no trains, no buses. Imagine no electricity for months on end. Imagine no meat, no fresh vegetables, no a/c, no heat. Imagine no antbiotics when you get cut on a barbed-wire fence or perforated by a bullet. Imagine eating garbage, wearing rags, crouching in the cold rain by a dark roadside planting homemade bombs while guys in dry clothes hover overhead in their Apache helicopters with night vision cameras, their machine guns ready to chop YOU into hamburger meat.
Imagine being a terrorist. Because if Texas ever did secede from the United States, and you supported that secession, that is exactly what you would be, by law.
I’m not saying that we should forget the idea. What I’m saying is let’s be damned sure we have a realistic picture of what it would be like if it ever happened. Secession would mean war — with the whole United States military (and probably a lot of foreigners) versus Texas. It would not be some Red Dawn fantasy, complete with heroic music, teenage girls in tight jeans firing machine guns, and John Milius on hand to guarantee a happy ending.
It would be like Iraq, only YOU would be the Iraqi. Think of everything the Army did to the Iraqis during the war. Now think of it happening to YOU.
Again, I’m not saying secession won’t someday be necessary. But I am saying that we ought to think damned seriously about what Uncle Sam did the last time we tried it.
The fact is that we will need tough border enforcement enforcement for the entire perimeter of Texas and we will have to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico and the United States.
Relocate to Texas NOW. Do not wait until we secede, and do not wait for a "leader" to emerge. Humanity has moved past the period in history when leaders were required. Now is the dawn of individual freedom birthed from individual conviction and action. You are the person. The time is now.
Come to Texas not as part of a movement, but *as* the movement. Be the "Lone Star" in the Lone Star Republic.
So you would turn down the willing aid of fellow conservatives and patriots who would gladly live and die alongside you in the defense of freedom, just because we happened to live in the wrong state when war broke out? Or are you really saying we should move now, before that becomes an issue?
No, I am saying that the Republic of Texas will have strong immigration policies and enforcement and those policies and enforcement will be applied equally, not no matter a person’s nationality, ethnicity or race.
An illegal alien is an illegal alien.
I've often considered this very scenario. I think that it is likely impossible for any conventional, and definitely any unconventional, military force, to defeat the US military. Their logistics, communications, technology, tactics, dominance of the air, training and firepower are unequaled in human history. The mighty British army of the Revolutionary War was nothing compared to today's American army, even accounting for the differences in technology.
Any domestic force opposing them would suffer from non-existent leadership (perhaps the biggest problem - think of how little leadership we see in the political arena), weak to non-existent logistics, no communications, no armor, no artillery, no air support - essentially they would have none of the elements that gives an army a fighting chance against any modern military force.
You are also correct about the intervention of a foreign power. That would almost certainly happen. China might do it just to protect their investment, and then after the fact decide that perhaps it made sense to keep a little land for themselves.
The only wild cards I see in such a conflict are two. The American Army is essentially completely tied down in Iraq and Afghanistan. They would have to put those conflicts on hold and return from those postings. That kind of turn around would be neither easy nor cheap.
The other is that America is BROKE, and wars are expensive. America couldn't finance an extended conflict because they couldn't borrow money, and because tax receipts would PLUMMET. A civil war would create economic havoc that would make the Great Depression look like the 1980's after the Reagan tax cuts. If a Civil War did break out, and could be made to last for more than six months, it would create nearly insurmountable issues of financing for the existing government.
I would make one final point. If a war does break out within the borders of the United States, it won't be a Civil War. No one wants to overthrow the government. We just want it to return to being a Constitutional Republic, not a dictatorship of the elites. What we have currently is near to the old system of royalty, and getting more so every day.
I’m all for realism, but the fact of the matter is this: A full on socialist transformation of the left-leaning states will create a human holocaust that your brooding description falls well short of, but in the leftist states, not in Texas. Unable to establish critical mass for political protection, conservative “refuseniks” in hard left states will eventually be hunted down and found, not by black helicopters, but by smiling representatives of various state and federal agencies. It will begin with conscientious objection to taxation that supports abortion. Many of us will very soon become criminals by government fiat, simply for being unalterably Christian. No Red Dawn helicopters or swat teams, to be sure. Just one by one, case by case, as if by slow torture, each of us being separated from our families via the courts and dragged off to overcrowded prisons, labeled as unpatriotic tax deadbeats, or worse as enemy combatants, and permanently forgotten by the outside world.
Even in my own church here in Illinois I am confronted with some who have a visceral hatred for anyone making an intelligent case against socialism. And this is the point. There will be no where to go for people like us if safe havens are not established. Geography is important. If this monstrosity we call Obamacare passes, and if some states open their doors via nullification or secession, what choice will we have? At least we would have a fighting chance in Texas, where so many of our military have their home, where natural resources are relatively abundant, and where there is natural access to international trade. Though I think you overstate the case, I would rather suffer your projected privations and take my stand together with the people who gave us the glory of the Alamo, than sit alone dying slowly of heartbreak in an Illinois prison, especially considering the Gitmo alumni with whom I would no doubt be sharing my cell.
Well and good, but you didn’t answer my question. This is real. What will those immigration policies look like? Should we consider moving now, or would an independent Texas grant asylum to people trying to escape severe political persecution in hard left US states?
“What will those immigration policies look like? “
Well, considering that less than 50% of the Texas population is anglo, I am sure that the powers that be in the Republic of Texas would permit some immigration from the U.S. but would also permit some from Mexico.
However, you cannot expect preferential treatment, simply because you are from the US.
But, don’t worry there are plenty of jobs here in Texas, even for the Illegal Aliens.
This time around, there won't be any shooting. Rather, the existing federal government will simply run out of ways in which to maintain both its current tax and debt financing capabilities. Printing counterfeit tickets is no substitute for real wealth creation. No money, no government. (It's how the South lost the last war. None of the Euros would provide financing for arms purchases, etc.)
Right now, nobody seems to be paying attention to unemployment, other than the obvious fact that a lot of people are unemployed. But what about UE benefits? Who is financing UI; where's the money coming from? Why, the federal gov't. But where are they getting the money? Why, they are printing it.
At some point in the near future, as federal support continues to weaken, the states will be FORCED to begin issuing their own script in which to pay in-state benefits. They will be able to collect in-state taxes via payroll, property, sales & income using this script.
California already paved the way with its issuance of IOUs. But that was just a trial run; the next stage if full on pseudo-currency, designed in such a way as to circumvent Constitutional prohibitions against states coining their own money. And the beauty behind this mechanism is that libs will be the chief architects - you know, the people simply must have money, so the state must provide it to them!
So here's the smart way to bring this around: follow what's going on in your state. Participate & encourage the notion of state script. Make sure and get yourself/family on board as wealth-consumers. Bring the system down through the most mundane of processes: money.
“Imagine no electricity for months on end. Imagine no meat, no fresh vegetables, no a/c, no heat. Imagine no antbiotics when you get cut on a barbed-wire fence or perforated by a bullet. Imagine eating garbage, wearing rags, crouching in the cold rain by a dark roadside planting homemade bombs while guys in dry clothes hover overhead in their Apache helicopters with night vision cameras, their machine guns ready to chop YOU into hamburger meat.”
Or REMEMBER that a MAJORITY of the US does not like where we re heading. So, maybe we drop the “crouching in the dark” imagery and we keep on ramping up protests that cannot be ignored?
Why does the left get away with throwing cement bags through bus windows and threatening all out racial wars? Why are we being inundated with Jihadist camps?
Hey, get 65% of the country to protest!
The problem is we are defending good ground. It is so easy to destroy it by the very rules upon the good ground.
Ultimately,it is time for every conservative to “get in the face” of this nonsense. It is time to thrust our own Rahmian knives into tables and make demands.
Maybe our Tea Parties are TOO polite and the tax-cheats, liars and criminals know it.
2010 needs to be a time where politicians begin to hear the people. They are far too insulated at this time.
I appreciate your optimism, but the truth is that the American way is to go along to get along. If Americans were going to rebel they would have done so by now. When the Clampdown comes, those who refuse to give in and play by the new rules will be as scarce — and as ridiculous — as tax protesters are today. They’ll drag you off to jail and most people — including most Freepers — simply won’t give a damn.
My point is that no matter what, those who refuse to comply with the New Order are probably going to end up rotting in a jail (or dead) no matter where they live. Sometimes, God simply permits Evil to win, and I’m guessing that this is going to be one of those times. Sure, some people will go out with their back up against a rock, trigger on full auto, and shouting ‘Wolverines!”, but in the end their heroic deaths won’t matter one bit. The Branch Davidians and Randy Weaver’s wife and son got killed as dead as a bag full of rocks for standing up to the Feds, and guess what? It didn’t make a damned bit of difference.
If a way can be found to manage the collapse of the United States in such a way as to preserve the rudiments of life we now enjoy, I say great. If Texas somehow gets the opportunity to secede peacefully, I’m all for it. But the odds are that the Bad Guys are going to win this round. Instead of piling up guns and engaging in adolescent paperback novel fantasies, let’s spend our time strengthening ourselves and our families for the persecution that is to come. After all, the Bad Guys can put you in a concentration camp (or a grave), but they can’t make you a traitor to Christ. If we have to suffer for our faith, so be it. Better men than you and I have done so.
The good news is that the Forces of Evil can win the battle, but they can’t win the war, because their way is contrary to the natural order of the universe, and can only be maintained by brute force. Sooner or later the New Order will rot, crumble, and collapse. And from its corpse will spring a new shoot from the seed of the old, Chrristian social order: tribes will bcome nations, warlords will become kings, and the Church will unite the survivors into a new Christendom. That new Christendom, and the return of our Lord, is the hope for which I live.
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