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Can Colleges Legally Force Students to Work for Free for a Third Party?
10/26/09 | Ryde

Posted on 10/26/2009 4:01:28 PM PDT by Ryde

Freepers: I occasionally work as an adjunct (I'm retired) for a local college. This college has just initiated a policy where they require their students to work for 75 hours for a third-party for free. That is, they require that a student give 75 hours of work to a non-profit, a charity, and so forth. The college will provide the list of organizations from which a student can choose. This strikes me as being pretty shaky legally and ethically. We seem to be providing a pool of unpaid labor for groups in our community--regardless of whether they want to work for free (which I am certainly opposed to.) The idea is supposedly to teach the students the value of serving others. Does any one out there have any comments or advice on this?


TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: education; ethics; laborlaw
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To: Your6

>>Simply remind them that YOU paid THEM for an education and if THYE want YOU to do work to obtain a degree then THEY need to pay YOU for those hours worked.<<

Yeah, that’s gonna work.

The only question is whether you can keep your dignity when they laugh you out of the place.


41 posted on 10/26/2009 5:19:33 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Ryde

>>Yes, I would guess over 90 % of our funding is through one government entity or another.<<

College itself is not a “right” by any and all definitions. If you don’t want to dance the tune, don’t ask someone else to pay the piper.


42 posted on 10/26/2009 5:21:37 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Ryde

Requiring college students to do 75 hours of volunteer work over four years or even over one year is hardly anything outrageous.

There must be a school, hospital, nursing home, charity, youth organization that you approve of that someone could make a difference by volunteering at.


43 posted on 10/26/2009 5:22:07 PM PDT by iowamark (certified by Michael Steele as "ugly and incendiary")
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To: Ryde

>>Actually, I am a lowly adjunct who needs the money to help with my retirement. I do not have a leg to stand on . . . .<<

Ilene?


44 posted on 10/26/2009 5:22:25 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003
I would think that it depends on if they were told in advance that they would have to volunteer 75 hours. If not, I think it is questionable as to it's legality.

The contract you speak of is to provide an education in a discpline for a set price. You are also told about the books, materials and, if applicable, other expenses you can expect beyobd that.

45 posted on 10/26/2009 5:28:49 PM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: freedumb2003
I would think that it depends on if they were told in advance that they would have to volunteer 75 hours. If not, I think it is questionable as to it's legality.

The contract you speak of is to provide an education in a discpline for a set price. You are also told about the books, materials and, if applicable, other expenses you can expect beyond that.

46 posted on 10/26/2009 5:29:23 PM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: Robert DeLong
No, the students are just having this dumped on them. From the discussion it appears that we are in a grey area and it is likely that the college will get away with this. Sigh--I really dislike seeing my students in this fix--many of them may have to postpone graduation--but it looks as though the legal issues will outweigh the ethical issues. So we will provide free labor for people.
47 posted on 10/26/2009 5:38:13 PM PDT by Ryde (Post-modernism: good only for those who sleep in soft beds.)
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To: Ryde

My son’s High School did this as a graduation requirement. I went in to the school board and told them in no uncertain terms that my sons were not going to participate in any force volunteerism. Hence, it was no longer voluntary. He graduated anyway but was not allowed to go to the graduation ceremony. Which was fine with us. We had our own ceremony and it was much shorter and better.

Colleges can require such things as degree requirements. As you are paying to attend and therefore can choose to leave if the terms are unacceptable.


48 posted on 10/26/2009 5:57:16 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Democrats: the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy and Sedition)
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To: Ryde

Sounds like slavery to me. Forcing some one to work is not a voluntary thing, it is slavery by another name. (forcing your kids to do chores is not included in this thought/idea process that is just common sense and character building).


49 posted on 10/26/2009 6:04:24 PM PDT by GailA (Quilts for the Alpha Omega House for Veterans....I'm a quilt-aholic!!!)
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To: Robert DeLong

>>I would think that it depends on if they were told in advance that they would have to volunteer 75 hours. If not, I think it is questionable as to it’s legality.

The contract you speak of is to provide an education in a discpline for a set price. You are also told about the books, materials and, if applicable, other expenses you can expect beyobd that. <<

You may have something there, but chances are good the admissions and registration documents allowed for such a change.

Trust me, I worked in Higher Ed for 20+ years and the contracts always favor the institution.

And, for the OP, the point is that whether or not the contract calls for such a commitment, it has nothing to do with “rights” and everything to do with “contract law.”


50 posted on 10/26/2009 6:09:37 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: GailA

>>Forcing some one to work is not a voluntary thing, it is slavery by another name.<<

If you can refuse it, it isn’t slavery, it is contract law. If an artist refuses to perform you cannot compel the performance but you can sue for damages.

Do not conflate contract law and slavery.


51 posted on 10/26/2009 6:16:46 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

Who lost their right to free speech?


52 posted on 10/26/2009 6:47:55 PM PDT by Misterioso (The uncontested absurdities of today are the accepted slogans of tomorrow. -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Misterioso
So ordering someone to take down criticism of the military doesn't constitute an abridgement of free speech in your book?

Tell me, can Jewish military personnel wear a yarmulke?

53 posted on 10/26/2009 7:35:08 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

I think I have a narrower view than you of what rights are.


54 posted on 10/26/2009 7:43:54 PM PDT by Misterioso (The uncontested absurdities of today are the accepted slogans of tomorrow. -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Misterioso

Perhaps, but I’ll leave you with this quote, from Rehnquist’s opinion in Goldman v. Weinberger: “Our review of military regulations challenged on First Amendment grounds is far more deferential than constitutional review of similar laws or regulations designed for civilian society. The military need not encourage debate or tolerate protest to the extent that such tolerance is required of the civilian state by the First Amendment”


55 posted on 10/26/2009 7:54:33 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: freedumb2003
it has nothing to do with “rights” and everything to do with “contract law.”

I agree. Especially if it was spelled out clearly within the contract. If it wasn't speleed out clearly I think they may still have a case against it.

56 posted on 10/27/2009 8:52:01 AM PDT by Robert DeLong (u)
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To: Ryde
They make the rules, but I'd certainly question their propriety if this requirement were tacked on after you signed on. Generally the best way to address this sort of abuse, and yes, I do consider regarding students, staff, and faculty as an unpaid labor pool to be abusive, is publicity. They may be within their legal rights to do it but if it makes the institution look bad, they may reconsider.

In other words, if you feel you can afford to be an agitator (and I'm guessing from your situation you don't) then have at it in the press. Letters to the editor, paid advertisements if you can raise the money, fliers on campus, speaking out at town-hall functions if there are any, raise a ruckus and it's news. The reason you see headlines like "Man Paints Himself Purple And Runs Nekkid Through Campus To Protest [whatever]" is that it gets headlines to begin with. Their is, however, inevitably a cost associated for Mr. Purple. If you don't want to be him, don't do it.

57 posted on 10/27/2009 9:03:05 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: freedumb2003
The imposition of Contract Law.

You seem to be a big fan of contract stuff. What is it they call a contract that is missing one of the critical elements, you know, such as that "consideration" thingee?

58 posted on 10/27/2009 9:10:26 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: meadsjn

>>What is it they call a contract that is missing one of the critical elements, you know, such as that “consideration” thingee?<<

You don’t see being paid as “consideration?” There is no more straightforward example of consideration in all of legaldom.

If you don’t want the man’s rules, don’t take the man’s money.


59 posted on 10/27/2009 9:43:25 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: freedumb2003
From the original posted article:

This college has just initiated a policy where they require their students to work for 75 hours for a third-party for free.

60 posted on 10/27/2009 9:46:20 AM PDT by meadsjn
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