Posted on 09/12/2009 11:59:46 AM PDT by FreeKeys
MSNBC’s First Read reported last night that the Obama Administration is now saying that illegal immigrants will be specifically prevented from obtaining coverage under the president’s health care proposal. The chage comes on the heels of Rep. Joe Wilson’s (R-SC) “You lie!” outburst during Obama’s health care address to a joint session of Congress on Wednesday. Although the president denied from the rostrum of the House chamber that illegals would be covered by the plan, the Administration thought it necessary to make changes to the existing proposal in order to clarify the issue.
But the bigger story the MSNBC missed with its focus on the Wilson flap is found in the second bullet point sent out by the White House last night. The Obama Administration inadvertently confirmed that the president’s plan will begin a slow take over of the health care system by the federal government. How else could this be interpreted?
“Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.”
In other words, as the federal exchange takes hold, plans not complying with the federal government’s standards will start to disappear. Eventually, it won’t make any sense for any company to offer health insurance as the federal requirements will make the business of providing health insurance far too expensive, and the premiums far too expensive for the insured.
The result will be that everyone will wind up with no other “choice” than the so-called public option, just as the Administration has planned all along. It took Wilson “calling out” the president’s “misinformation” and “lies” to finally get the Administration to admit it.
Help that capital L was supposed to be a colon. Can you fix it? Thanks.
Barry won’t be able to get away with this. He bought Chrysler and GM for his pals down at the UAW. SEIU is going to want it’s healthcare industry NOW! It’s theirs. They bought and paid for it during BO’s presidential campaign.
The Supreme Court has already held that the Constitution forbids legislation which excludes one group of people.
So it is another lie that immigrants will not be covered.
YOU LIE !! White House ..
The White House wants a foot in the door and will then advance their agenda over time. They still want control over the people in the country.
Same cow, different markings. :)
“In other words, as the federal exchange takes hold, plans not complying with the federal government’s standards will start to disappear. Eventually, it won’t make any sense for any company to offer health insurance as the federal requirements will make the business of providing health insurance far too expensive, and the premiums far too expensive for the insured.
The result will be that everyone will wind up with no other “choice” than the so-called public option,”
The Exchange is not the public option plan. Think of the Exchange as a farmer’s market where lots of plans get to sell their wares, including the public option plan. It’s absolutely true that all the plans offered under the Exchange have to conform to government-set benefits standards and that this is a bad design feature of the Exchange (in contrast, the Medicare Part D private drug plans have a lot of flexibility in designing their benefits so long as they meet an “actuarial equivalence” test. That means they can set deductibles and copayments at whatever levels they think make sense so long as the plan overall covers X% of expected expenses).
But the point is that both private plans and the public plan would be available through the Exchange. Private plans could continue to be offered outside the Exchange, i.e., “grandfathered” but as soon as a company tries to change the design of these plans, they will have to conform to the same design standards as the plans within the Exchange. Moreover, those eligible for subsidies to purchase coverage can only get these if they buy through the Exchange (i.e., they don’t want someone taking their subsidy and buying a super-cheap plan outside the exchange that turns out to offer little insurance protection).
This is why, over time, the private market outside the Exchange will shrink, but for every plan that “dies” outside the Exchange, presumably a new version of that plan with better benefits will replace it.
So the mere “fact” of a shrinking private market outside the Exchange is no proof, per se, that the public plan is intended to crowd out private coverage. There’s plenty of reasons to think it might, but the administration won’t accept these claims (and indeed, even Congressional Budget Office claims only 12 million will enroll in the public plan). So it’s not correct to think the administration has made an implicit acknowledgment of their devious intent when they openly concede the private market outside the Exchange will shrink.
Now that’s a worldly cow!
Just watch..one will be born soon with Obama’s face. And thus we have the AntiChrist cow. Then Blizzard can have a secret Obama cow in Diablo III next year, people will cook Obama hamburgers, etc etc
I mean, since there are already Obama comics..
http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-comic.jpg
And THAT is the reason we can tolerate NO compromise with our healthcare. The left NEVER quits. They don’t really have anything else to do - like real jobs or running companies, so when we have to go back to our lives, they are still there tunneling away.
That needs to go viral - ASAP!
“So it is another lie that immigrants will not be covered.”
Missing word is illegal. But, illegal is a misdemeanor so it won’t count.
That means that health care providers have no individual rights. The collective right of the people to receive health care would supersede the provider's individual right to set their fees, their hours or change their occupational status or even decide how to apply their skills and knowledge. A collective right, by practical definition, is a state right because it is a right that is provided by the government to all not protected by the government as something possessed by each person. It is also a state right because it supersedes the individual rights of others when the two come into conflict.
It isn't stated in any of the bills that a patient's rights to care supersedes a provider's right to set fees and hours etc, but it doesn't need to. Rights are always adjudicated in the courts. The legislation simply establishes the foundation for the courts to rule in favor of the patient's collective right to health care.
Weiner’s view is collectivist, fascist and totalitarian. Collectivist because it is superior to an individual right. Fascist because it is overseen by one entity the Federal government. Totalitarian because the Federal government is the true possessor of this collective right and the administrator and enforcer of it as well.
Congressman Weiner's view is the underlying philosophy of the entire Health Care Reform legislation the House and Senate have put forth. Consider the setting up of community watch dogs to monitor various health parameters of citizens in the Senate version of the bill. Look at pages 382 - 393.
TITLE I—QUALITY, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS
Even the citizens themselves will be subject to state set regulations on their behavior in order to fulfill the human right of universal health care. It isn't the individual's liberty that is being protected by that it is the state's control over its health care system that is being guarded. How much clearer can it be that these bills abrogate the concept of individual rights?
Health Care is a Liberty Issue Conservative Underground - 18 August 2009 - Tim Dunkin
Second Bill of Rights aka FDR's economic bill of rights (An early attempt to embed collective rights into American politics and society.)
Another Stupid Argument: Heath Care is a Right
Obama's Authoritarian, Unconstitutional Health Care Proposal
Your absolutely right it is the last line in the sand of rights as a whole.
Not only will the government decide who lives and dies, but they will ultimately decide where physicians live, who gets education to be a physician, who gets drugs.
Complete control
We know it is coming, but despite what WE THE PEOPLE want, Obama Pelosi and Reid are going to do it anyway.
I sure think so. Ronald Reagan thought so. He said the best way to institute socialism was through health care. It is one sixth of the economy and everyone needs it. Once that concept of collective rights is applied and accepted there it will be applied to everything. FDRs “economic bill of rights” spells that out. It’s beyond socialism it is outright Marxist communism. The people become nothing more than property and assets (or liabilities) of the government.
I was with you all the way up to the word “presumably.” You are assuming that the plans outside the “exchange” will comply with all the requirements for “adequate coverage” to gain entry into the exchange. As I remember, in HR3200, there was even some latitude given to the Health Choices Commissioner and his administration to fully define “adequate coverage.”
DrC wrote:
This is why, over time, the private market outside the Exchange will shrink, but for every plan that “dies” outside the Exchange, presumably a new version of that plan with better benefits will replace it.
Hasn't Maine done this already at the state level? Didn’t they pretty much run off nearly all their insurance companies by making Maine a “must insure everyone” market. In Maine, a company legally can’t refuse to cover anyone due to health conditions. They have a limited exclusion for pre-existing conditions that they can apply for a very limited time, but if you sell health insurance in Maine, you sell to anyone who wants to buy, regardless of their current health situation.
Needless to say, Maine has very high health insurance premiums. They also have only a handful of insurers left, along with a state subsidized plan called Dirigo. That program is a kind of publicly funded, privately operated partnership, with premium subsidies for low income people.
BTW, if the Republican version of “allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines” were to become law, it would wipe out all insurers in the state of Maine. What would happen is the healthy people in Maine would declare themselves “Kentuckians” and “Kansans” and buy insurance in those states. That is the intended goal of the Republican proposal.
But the other thing that would happen is that people who live in states that allow companies to deny coverage entirely for people with serious pre-existing health issues would flock to Maine to buy from companies that legally can’t deny them from becoming insured. So, after everyone picks their state, the insurance companies in Maine will be left insuring only unhealthy people that are denied coverage in other states due to pre-existing health conditions. No healthy person in Maine will stay with a Maine based company, and every unhealthy person from all the other states, who get denied in their own state will be allowed to at least get some kind of coverage from a company in Maine who legally can’t refuse to cover them. No company in Maine will survive that. They will just close.
I’ve posted before why I disagree with that particular Republican plan, more from a constitutional point of view. I am 100% in favor of changing federal law to absolutely forbid any state from forbidding companies from other states from selling insurance in their home state. I also think that all regulations in one state should apply equally to all companies selling insurance in that state. For example, Florida can’t have one set of rules for companies based in Florida, and a separate set of rules for companies based in New York. But Florida can say that every policy sold in the state meets the same rules, no matter where the company offering the policy is based.
However, from a states’ rights point of view, I don’t believe that the Federal government can substitute the laws of some other state for the laws of your own state just because you don’t like the laws of your home state. Representative Shadeg and Senator DeMint have proposed this under the guise of “allowing interstate markets for health insurance.” It seriously tramples states’ rights, and it will be a disaster for many states. It will also ultimately result in federal regulation of health insurers and drive up the cost of health insurance in the states that currently have reasonably good markets, workable regulations, and reasonable premiums.
You have two other options today that are much stronger than the Federal proposal from DeMint and Shadeg. You can elect some state legislatures to fix the laws in your own state. There is nothing preventing that now. The other choice available today is to pack your stuff and move to a state with insurance laws you agree with. If the Shadeg/DeMint plan becomes law, you’ll immediately lose the first option and eventually lose the second to federal health insurance regulations that apply nation wide, and will probably be closer to the regs in the higher priced states today.
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