Pantry Raid (SWAT raid over Farm License confusion)

Reason Blog ^ | 12/09/08 | Katherine Mangu-Ward

[Dutchgirl]

A crack SWAT team of sherrif's deputies, health inspectors, and Ohio Department of Agriculture officials busted into the Manna Storehouse food co-op in LaGrange, Ohio, in a raid last week. The co-op is also the home of the Stowers family, so Katie Stowers, her children, and her in-laws were held at gunpoint while the agents took tens of thousands of dollars worth of meat, plus computers and cell phone. Chad Stowers, Katie's husband, wasn't home because he is a U.S. Navy Seabee currently in Iraq.

Their crime? The warrant listed the reason for the raid as "beef."

Manna may, perhaps, have needed a license to run a retail food establishment. Mostly a coop, they did sell some leftover products in a small store on the property. The exact nature of the business is in dispute, which is why the Stowers' wrote letters to various agencies asking for advice on how to proceed. Obviously, the best way to reply to that request was with a SWAT team.

The folks over at Peace Chicken (yes, that's a real site, compete with chicken death doomsday clock) are seriously peeved. They offer, from the Lorain county sherrif's page, a list of the legit justifications for a SWAT raid:

* Hostage Situations: the holding of any person(s) against their will by an armed or potentially armed suspect. * Barricade Situation: the stand-off created by an armed or potentially armed suspect in any location, whether fortified or not, who is refusing to comply with law enforcement demands for surrender. * Sniper Situations: the firing upon citizens and/or law enforcement officers by an armed suspect, whether stationary or mobile. * High-Risk Apprehension: the arrest or apprehension of armed or potentially armed suspects where the likelihood of armed resistance is high. * High-Risk Warrant Service: the service of search or arrest warrants where the warrant service matrix or policy recommends or requires the use of SWAT. * Personal Protection: the security of special persons, such as VIP’s, witnesses, or suspects, based on threat or potential threat to the well being of those persons. * Special Assignments: any assignment, approved by the SWAT Operations Commander, based on a high level of threat and/or need.

Not on the list:

* Licensing Confusion: when a farm might be a retail establishment, or it might not, based on high level of threat from pitchforks and/or women and children.

[WayneS]

Well, at least you’ve finally ADMITTED it!

And that’s the first step towards recovery...

;^)

[angkor]

>>>>>I was giving the people the benefit of doubt that they were trying to find out how to comply. <<<<<<<<

I understand where you’re coming from but I think any competent lawyer would have said “If you’re selling $5 memberships you could be perceived as a retailer and therefore you should get your license.”

More power to them for picking a fight, but they *were* picking a fight, and they got it.

[angkor]

>>>>If you trust the FDA for that you are mistaken. <<<<<<

I think not.

Just where have you been outside the United States, and which of those foreign countries runs (a) the best and (b) the worst food inspection and safety regime?

Describe the food safety measures (or lack of same) that you’ve seen in, say, Africa or Asia or South America.

[angkor]

>>>>>>Under investigation doesn’t mean “guilty”.<<<<<<<

FR is not a court of law, we are not judges or juries, and as participants in the FR debate and the civic debate you and I may draw whatever conclusions we wish, and state them here.

Yep, based on reading several news reports and the PDF of the court papers as well as the search warrant I believe they are guilty of selling food products to the public without a retail food license.

I believe they did this deliberately and in a manner designed to challenge the written statute and the local government, but without doing that with the aid of an attorney and going through the proper channels which we call “the rule of law”.

IMO they brought this all upon themselves - deliberately - and their charges of “SWAT team, intimidation” are all of the same cloth.

[angkor]

The questions are only whether these people challenged a simple local ordinance about licensing, and whether the police and the DA overreached.

From what I have read, yes ...... and no.

It’s been real but I think I’m finished discussing political philosophy and cultural anthropology with you.

[DJ MacWoW]

Oh Lord! Where to begin? With the FDA bureaucracy running things, I can stay home, eat poison and kill my pets too while buying it all at a licensed food seller.

This summer the efficient FDA blamed tomatoes for a salmonella.outbreak. Ruined the farmer. OOOPS! It wasn't tomatoes. Instead, Jalapeño and Serrano peppers grown in Mexico, caused the salmonella outbreak.

Melamine Food Contamination Spreads to U.S.

Haven't you listened to the news lately or read FR?

[angkor]

>>>>>The sheriff’s department doesn’t HAVE any semi-autiomatic weapons, indeed. If you believe THAT I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.<<<<<<<<

It’s not a matter of belief, it’s a matter of what was stated.

[WayneS]

Okay.

Just let me know when you’re ready to discuss your “do as I say not as I do” hypocrisy vis-a-vis “ad hominem” attacks.

[DJ MacWoW]

I disagree. The ODA has been trying to set them up. An ODA inspector tried buying into the co-op but was rebuffed. I also read the comments posted to the local article.

and their charges of “SWAT team, intimidation” are all of the same cloth.

I disagree with this too but that's not a surprise.

I am a conservative and I do not believe that government is the answer to all our problems.

[angkor]

>>>>>>And that’s the first step towards recovery...<<<<

Yes, I need help with my FDA and “big government” fetish.

I think you know where I stand, why don’t we just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[WayneS]

RIGHT!

Stated by the sheriff’s department.

Of course, there were a great many far more believable things stated by OTHERS which YOU chose to just disbelieve out-of-hand.

I choose to believe that the sheriff is mis-stating the facts. There is almost NO chance that a 21st century sherrif’s department in a county near a major city is issuing REVOLVERS as service weapons.

Then again, maybe he’ll make a statement tomorrow to the effect that his deputies are still using single shot flint-lock pistols - and you can jump in and tell us ALL how “the sheriff SAID it!!!”

[angkor]

>>>>>Haven't you listened to the news lately or read FR? <<<<<<

Yes, I know all about the examples you've cited and I agree and heads should roll.

I picked "chiles" *weeks* before the FDA finally admitted it. It was obvious based on the reports that the outbreaks occurred in known "Latino" cities in the USA. The lockdown on reporting the ethnicity of the victims also gave it away. Early on I watched a long interview with on FDA scientist on (C-SPAN?) and it was patently clear that she'd been coached to avoid any mention or whisper of "Mexico".

But this is part and parcel of the utter corruption of an federal government which kowtows to the Mexico lobby both here and south of the border. That was not inherently an FDA problem IMO.

The melamine problem is a stumper. American companies apparently buy HUGE wholesale lots of China *ingredients* for their products in addition to the end products themselves (e.g. dogfood). Go to alibaba.com and take a look at China wholesale offerings (it's owned by Yahoo and is one of the largest China trade sites on the Internet).

The recent problem with baby formula *and* animal feed IMO might both have come from the bulk protein supplements and additives (soy, albumin, and whey) which I found were documented to have melamine contamination *more than one year ago*. Not much of that appeared in the news from what I could find.

I don't know where FDA stands on that quite frankly. Clearly they need to act more diligently.

But this is all very different from the issue of refusing to obtain a local county license to sell retail food products in the USA.

This is what you get with no licensing, no food inspections, no FDA, and no "government control":

[angkor]

>>>>Just let me know when you’re ready to discuss your “do as I say not as I do” hypocrisy vis-a-vis “ad hominem” attacks.<<<<<<

Roger that, will do.

[angkor]

>>>>>Of course, there were a great many far more believable things stated by OTHERS which YOU chose to just disbelieve out-of-hand.<<<<<<<

Yes because what I’ve read of these folks makes me believe they were disingenuous from the get-go, more than one year ago.

Also, why in tarnation would the sheriff say they had “no semiautomatics” if they in fact have semiautomatics?

There’s no conceivable profit in lying about it, or else it was a misquote by the reporter.

[little jeremiah]

>>>Bureaucracy never protects the little guy.

Truer words were never spoken.

[DJ MacWoW]

But the FDA approved these foods. Foreign foods. I’d eat anything an American farmer produced. Which brings us back to the co-op. You dislike foreign food. I agree. The FDA will kill us allowing foreign crap. The co-op wasn’t accused of having tainted food. I live in a farm area but don’t know of any co-ops. I know the food from around here would be safe. Don’t you think these people in the co-op were in it to avoid tainted foods? Organic foods are a big trend. Rightfully so.

[DJ MacWoW]

Government always protects itself.

[Sarajevo]

Facebook grammar=”taxation buy another name” Conservative grammar=”taxation by another name”

Hmmmm.........after reading some of your comments upthread, I can only surmise that you are attempting to attack my difference of opinion by making an issue of a simple misspelling...... I'll leave you in the wise hands of "WayneS" and "DJ MacWoW". In the mean-time, I'll still support the issue of smaller and less intrusive government.

[Sarajevo]

Describe the food safety measures (or lack of same) that you’ve seen in, say, Africa or Asia or South America.

OMG! How did the human race survive??????????

I can attest to the safety standards (or lack thereof) of Asia and South America, but not Africa. I can also say that I successfully took responsibility for what I ate in those places. It isn't hard, and it doesn't require government control.

[MichiganConservative]

These people are weird. The police are always right. They need to follow the LAW. The LAW is always right. They just should have know all of the laws on the books and followed every one of them.

If they didn’t want a standoff with the police, they shouldn’t have done what they did. They’re obviously guilty of morally corrupting farming practices.