Posted on 12/08/2008 9:43:31 AM PST by This Just In
However, the religious angle on homosexual marriage is of little interest to me. Just because something is condemned by the Bible or other religious teachings— or if something is promoted by various religious doctrines, should not be the basis for any such practice to be banned in the law — or to be required by it either.
Here is the crux of it all — the promoters of same sex marriage contend that the Constitution ( of whatever State or even the federal Constitution) REQUIRES the State to recognize, accept, and give full status to people of the same sex getting married to each other. This is the most absurd, ridiculous proposition I have ever heard of, yet the high courts of at least 3 states have so found. It is no different that saying there is an existing constitutional right to —say, marry a horse or a cow or an automobile or a television set. There has never been a society in the history of humankind on earth where “legal marriage” between same sex couples has been a normative practice or something given legal status of any sort— much less legal status akin to men getting married to women. How does a practice which has never been accepted by a society- much less given legal status— suddenly become a constitutional requirement? John Adams in authoring the MA constitution had in mind that men getting married to men was such a fundamental human right that it was embodied as part of the “liberty” guaranteed to the people of MA by that document? Obviously, an absurd idea. Yet, the MA Sup Ct. so found.
To me, the issue is not to be guided by religious doctrine of any kind. To me, the fundamental issue is whether we actually have a constitution which advances the cause of freedom by restricting the power of govt, or whether the constitution is to be used as a document which IMPOSES TYRANNY at the hands of the elite liberal clique which simply say, “To Hell with the will of the people and to Hell with interpreting the constitution as a brake on govt power. We are the ones who know best, and you WILL follow whatever dictates we deem socially appropriate at the moment.”
Same here. For me voting yes on 8 was a First Amendment issue. I want to continue to tell people, especially my children and other young people, that I think homosexual behavior is a perversion. Gay marriage is a political tool for gays to use to become a constitutionally protected minority. I will not be able to "discriminate" against gays and if I say their behavior is unsanitary I will be charged with hate speech.
I have no religious affiliation but many of my friends are active in their churches. If gays become protected by anti-discrimination laws there will be churches sued for discrimination. Bigotry against Christians is already widely accepted. One of our country's founding principles was freedom of religion, not freedom of fornication style. The Newsweek turd burglars forgot to mention that pillar of the debate.
I agree, partially. There are two things the homosexuals have to overcome, moral approbation and biological reality.
Morality comes from religion, and I believe in it, so I have a moral objection to homosexuality. Unfortunately, the leaders of the popular culture have been working hard to break down and discredit all traditional morality. The homosexuals in the “arts” and entertainment have been right there helping this to happen because it ultimately benefits them to eliminate all traditional concepts of sexual morality.
Biological reality is another thing entirely. Sex and sexual attraction have an obvious and important biological purpose. Men and women have complementary parts for a reason. To pretend that the things homosexual do to imitate the procreative act are the same as, and deserve the same respect as, the procreative act is ridiculous.
“It’s a business call...”
That’s a pile of bovine dung. It is about more than just money. It’s about ideology. Homosexuals represent a small percentage of the population. Conservatives/Christians represent for more in potential revenue. If you don’t believe that, examine the top money making films within the last ten years. You would think that with all the media focus on gays, they would have a consistent and major share in the market, and yet they don’t.
This past election cycle should be another example of their ideological push/propaganda. A far more deeper intent is revealed in this document (please read carefully):
Communist Goals (1963)
Documention below
Congressional Record—Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963
Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, January 10, 1963
Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:
[From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture—education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [”]united force[”] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.
Concerning your bet, I wouldn’t be surprised if the layoffs come in the not too distant future, although, I must ask; if you state that it’s all about money, and you believe that Newsweek will begin laying off employees soon, aren’t you refuting your previous statement?
“It went gay about forty years ago.”
I’d like to see a headline that reads, ‘The Religious Case for Gay Marriage’ from forty years ago.
“I have NO PROBLEM with Newsweek giving the finger to traditional Americans. “
I do. I am sick of media bias.
I have NO PROBLEM with Newsweek going out of business otoh.
The last sentence of my post reflects my feelings - Newsweek's bias will sink them...
For some reason, the phrase “Newsweek Religion Reporter” makes me laugh. It seems like we could solve this whole argument alot more efficiently if we “re-interpreted” one Commandment in particular.
“It’s a business call - they’ve determined there are enough gays to support their magazine - and they don’t need Americans with traditional values. It’s their call.”
Well, for a magazine that’s all about the bottom line, they missed the memo in California concerning Pro. 8. I’ll say it again, they missed the memo in CALIFORNIA, you know, one of the Sodom and Gomorrah’s of our time (namely, Hollywood. No offense to those living in Bakersfield and rural CA), concerning Proposition 8; which was passed AGAIN.
It’s about ideology, not money.
Our laws and the English common law were based on the fact of the Judeo-Christian belief in God ie natural law.
Our Declaration of Independence referred to the fact that our Creator not a man made government gives us the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Negating God and His laws turn all of us over to the whims of men.
Paschal’s wager is still alive and well.
Bares repeating:
“Our laws and the English common law were based on the fact of the Judeo-Christian belief in God ie natural law.”
“Our Declaration of Independence referred to the fact that our Creator not a man made government gives us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
“Negating God and His laws turn all of us over to the whims of men.”
And lest anyone forget, let us remember the very first signed document that became the basis for our form of government back in 1620 by 41 pilgrims (of 102 passengers) whom traveled to this country and built the Pilgrim Colony:
THE MAYFLOWER COMPACT
“In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620.”
Well said, victim soul
To say that our laws and system of government evolve from and are ultimately based on the natural law and that the Founders’ entire understanding of the natural order were based on Judeo-Christian concepts, is not to say that various ‘abominations’ listed in the Bible must be proscribed in the law. There are many beliefs which are rooted in Judeo-Christian/Biblical doctrine which are accepted and followed only be certain sects and rejected by others. At the same time, there are many ‘sins’ which are not addressed in the law, nor should there be.
I accept what the Bible says about homosexuality in my own mind and life, and no “government” or Court is going to tell me otherwise. The liberal judges who somehow claim the most basic of our societal documents REQUIRES the government (and thus all of us as a people) must accept homosexual marriage are simply imposing what amount to religious beliefs into the fabric of government. Only they are doing so purely from the secular side. Socialism, radical environmentalism, and a host of other beliefs are the religion of the Left. The Constitution is not a religious document and should not be used by either side as such.
I wonder why Newsweek does not even try to reinterpret the Holy Quran to make a case for same-sex “marriage”.
It's a business call - they've determined that there are enough gays to support their magazine - and that they don't need Americans with traditional values. It's their call. Anyone want to make bets on how long it'll be before we hear of major layoffs?In a few weeks. There are not enough sodomites to prop up the magazine.
It’s about ideology, not money.Ideology is not going to pay dividends, salaries, or the electric bill. When Newsweek goes under, I hope that some wealthy conservatives buy the magazine and hire the right people to write columns.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
Not around here it ain't.
Do you happen to have some sort of an active link to that terrific posts from its source?
Gee. Who would have thunk it?
Newsweak - A dogmatically liberal magazine, removed completely from the truth, but arguing as if it were the authority.
Perversion is exalted. People of faith are slandered. We are told to be liberated by our sexual proclivities. New Yorkers want to go to bars with funny gay friends. It makes them cool and “with it.” Lisa Miller gets invited to the shee-shee cocktail parties. Tripe is exalted as art. Reverential works are considered fascist.
We will soon be like Canada where the anti-homosexuality sermon is litigated as hate speech.
Will you you join me in protesting in California, like they are doing in Washington state?
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