Posted on 12/06/2008 5:15:13 PM PST by Smokeyblue
I received the following e-mail from one of the electors I have been sending letters to:
December 6, 2008
I have been asked by some concerned citizens as part of my Constitutional responsibility as a member of the College of Electors to review the evidence and make a determination regarding the natural born citizenship of Barack Hussein Obama II, or to join in a lawsuit against him in this matter. They have also forwarded a great deal of information to me which I have now reviewed.
After reading this information it is my opinion that none of it is conclusive in its own right. Most of it is speculation, rumor, or opinion rendered by "experts" or others whose qualifications and motives are suspect. However, given the volume of information put forth, the question of Mr. Obama's natural born citizenship was worth my understanding.
Since the United States Supreme Court has not rendered an opinion regarding the validity of the "natural born" status of a U.S. citizen or otherwise defined this term, I am therefore at liberty to make my own determination as a Presidential Elector. In my opinion a person is a natural born citizen if he or she is granted citizenship either at birth or at the age of majority by the United States government. And has never been required by the United States government to become "naturalized" or take the oath of citizenship. This seems to me to be a straightforward and logical understanding of the term. If you are presumed to be a U.S. citizen at your birth, and no government entity says otherwise, then in fact you are.
If someone emigrates from another country to the United States, and wishes to become a citizen, that person must enter a legal process culminating in taking the oath of citizenship and being "naturalized." This is why for example the current Governor of California cannot claim "natural born" status and become the President of the United States. He was born an Austrian. He emigrated here. He sought citizenship. And he was "naturalized" in a ceremony conducted by United States officials.
And there is also in the United States the use of Common Law as a part of our judicial system. Most of the time the law is codified by us, but in fact there are traditions and understandings which have not always been codified. My point here is that for example if you have a right of way from your property across another person's property to a road, that person after a specified period of time (dependent upon a particular state's statutes) cannot suddenly decide that you cannot cross his property anymore to get to the road. It is presumed after a certain period of time that this right of way is a right that you retain since he did not protest your crossing his property for years.
These are the two bases upon which I have rendered my decision. Even if some or all of the scenarios to which these concerned citizens have pointed regarding Mr. Obama's citizenship are true, two facts remain. The United States government has never required Mr. Obama to take the oath of citizenship, or even to render a decision at the age of majority between having U.S. citizenship and Kenyan citizenship, or U.S. citizenship and Indonesian citizenship. And he has lived here and been reared and educated as a U.S. citizen. It would seem to me that 47 years is a sufficient amount of time to have lived here as a U.S. citizen, with no government entity challenging it, for us and for Mr. Obama to presume that he is a natural born U.S. citizen.
Whether through clerical error, or bureaucratic malfeasance, or simply because it is actually true as was stated on October 31, 2008 by the Director of the Health Department for the State of Hawaii, that he was in fact born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. Barack Hussein Obama II has been presumed by the United States government itself to be a natural born citizen of the United States for 47 years.
It issued him a Social Security number and a passport, obviously accepting his Hawaiian birth certificate without requiring a team of forensic scientists to examine it. He has lived in the United States as a U.S. citizen for his entire adult life. He has been not only a de facto U.S. citizen, he has been a de jure U.S. citizen. A citizenship conferred upon him by the United States government at his birth, and never questioned by any court, or executive branch official for 47 years. The United States government itself accepted his natural born citizenship when it issued him a passport without requiring him to take the oath of citizenship in a ceremony like all other immigrants to this country.
Therefore, as the Presidential Elector for the 6th Congressional District of North Carolina it is my Constitutional determination that Barack Hussein Obama II is a natural born citizen of the United States, and is qualified to become the 44th President of the United States of America. I will cast my Electoral College vote accordingly on December 15, 2008.
Sincerely,
Wayne Abraham
“Obama has an impeachment-proof House and Senate.”
According to Dr. Edwin Veira Jr, Barry can’t be impeached because he won’t actually be President. Impeachment is only for real Presidents! However Joe Biden could summon the FBI to the White House and have the imposter arrested. Or so the absurd story goes.
How does this guy know Nobama has a US passport? Has he seen it? Has anybody?
Starry-eyed decisis?
“Since the United States Supreme Court has not rendered an opinion regarding the validity of the “natural born” status of a U.S. citizen or otherwise defined this term, I am therefore at liberty to make my own determination as a Presidential Elector.”
Yep, and if he’s wrong Obama will be thrown out and Biden installed.
What a mess.
All because no one checked before the election!
I guess the six months to a year (he won't say exactly how long) that he and Michelle spent in Bali, Indonesia working on his first book doesn't count.
Those people on the Island sure were kind in letting Barry "On da Low" Soetoro and his lovely bride stay for such a long time even though the max stay on a US Passport with a tourist vis was 30 or 60 days.
Hmmmmmmm. Wonder if Indonesian Passports don't come in handy every now and then.
Any Prersident capable of directing Katrina to strike poor dumb New Orleans residents is certainly capable of directing Obama’s mother to birth her bastard son in Kenya,;;;or Tibet! That Bush is a powerful guy!
I don’t know what cases the Supremes did accept on Friday, but I doubt they involve issues even a fraction as important as clarifying the definition of “natural-born citizen.” I don’t want the politicians to define this, as they will simply manipulate their definition with an eye toward the next election or two.
This goes way beyond Obama. It will likely come up again and again.
That's the trouble with this question ~ it's never been put to the test of argument in the courts before, or even in Congress or a state legislature, or even a highschool debate.
Here' let me give you another one. Despite ICE and other government agencies recognizing the birthright citizenship of every baby born here, even if the mother is simply lost on a path in the desert near New Mexico, the law actually views visitors' birthgiving differently.
If you and your family are visiting the United States with an appropriate visa or other other understanding and a baby is born to the family, the head of the household, or the mother, is REQUIRED BY LAW to add that child to the family visa (or obtain a visa for the baby).
Yup, whether or not the kid is a citizen, the parent(s) must add the kid to their visa(s), presumably under penalty of law.
Obviously there's something wrong here since US citizens are simply not required to obtain a visa to stay in the United States, so are these new born babies actually citizens as understood by our laws? Obviously they aren't, so why does ICE say they are?
We could dispose of the problem of citizenship granted to children born to people who were only visitors here (whether with a lawful visa, or as illegal aliens) simply by demanding they add these kids to their visas (or get visas then add the kids to their visas) as is required by law.
I figure that would instantly take citizenship from 30 million people, but so what, the law is the law.
That is not correct. No Hawaiian offical has ever stated that he has a birth certificate on file indicating he was born in Hawaii.
(Or was that $10? Whatever, Bali is hardly the United States).
If that sends chills up your spine, consider the following: a foreign government gets hold of Obama’s real birth certificate, or whatever information he is hiding on his certificate. Barry does not have the backbone to stand up to blackmailers.
I assume a number of foreign countries already have the information. Remember a year ago when some employees broke in to the VIP files at the passport office? Remember who squealed the loudest. Yes, that’s right, it was Obama.
Agree. I have no desire to see this election overturned. But all these sealed records from Kenya to Hawaii and in-between are making a mockery of our system. Obama's supposed birthplace in Kenya is now a pilgrimage site for Pete's sake.
1. Without the long form birth certificate information
Mr. Obama could have been anywhere. Even his sister Mya
Sottero has a Hawaii birth certificate and she was born in
Indonesia.
Here is why.....
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
For $1.00 any Foreigner can get a Hawaiian birth certificate.
2.The State of Hawaii DID NOT confirm Mr. Obama was
born in Hawaii. They only confirmed the he had a birth
certificate on file and they had seen it.
DR. FUKINO could also have made the exact statement about
Mr. Obama’s sister Mya Sottero whom again was born in Indonesia.
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
Still does not prove or provide the location where Mr. Obama was born
Point taken. Either way, my point is that he wasn’t relying on any extensions to any US passport, as he most likely traveled on his Indonesian passport.
BOOKMARK
You don’t “travel on” a US Passport ~ you use it to GET BACK INSIDE THE US. The visas are what get you into another country for a visit. Indonesia is pretty poor ~ unimagineably poor in fact ~ $10 gets you in.
Do you have a source for that information? The reason I asked is because I've read that here numerous times and when I mentioned it someone asked for a source. All I could find was a mention if Maya's Indonisan birth/Hawaiian BC was in Bergs lawsuit.
Arrogant & ignorant: O.J. & Obama & all of O’s electors.
Again, that has nothing to do with what I am saying, but if it makes you feel smart, keep addressing it, because frankly, I don’t give a sh*t about how poor Indonesians are, whether it is pretty poor, unimaginably poor, dirt poor, it doesn’t matter for the purposes of this discussion.
He didn’t need a visa because he was an Indonesian citizen. He gave his US Citizenship up as a youth in Indonesia, and continued to use it as an adult. There is no record of him having a US Passport until he was elected to the Senate in 2005.
My point, once again, is that the OP claimed that he had never lived anywhere but the US during his entire life, when, in fact, he spent a year as an adult living in Indonesia supposedly writing his first book. Therefore, he didn’t live in the US his entire adult life. Seriously, it ain’t that complicated.
OP said didn’t live anywhere other than the US during his entire adult life is what I meant...
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