Give em back. Texas Raid Based on a LIE??? (Blog Post includes video news clip)

The Natural Family BLOG ^ | April 18th, 2008 | Jenny Hatch

[Jenny Hatch]

UPDATE: Friday April 18

The "Sixteen year old girl." A hoax???

Just read this on WND.

I am SPITTING mad. Texas authorities better have those children back in their mothers arms by tonight.

Jenny Hatch

"A 33-year-old Colorado Springs woman has been questioned about a telephone call that sparked a raid at the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints compound in western Texas two weeks ago.

Rozita Swinton was arrested at her home Wednesday night by Colorado Springs police for an incident that occurred in February. Members of the Texas Rangers were also in Colorado Springs as part of their investigation.

"The Texas Rangers were in Colorado Springs (Wednesday) as part of their investigation involving the compound in Texas. They left and have not filed any charges on Rozita Swinton as of this time," said Colorado Springs police spokesman Lt. Skip Arms.

Colorado Springs police said the arrest warrant has been sealed and refused to release any other details, reported Deseret News."

[kempo]

Let me ask you a question. If you had the misfortune to have a 13 year old granddaughter who lived in that place make a complaint to someone that she was being sexually abused, would you want the authorities to completely check that out even if it would inconvenience some people to do so?

[MizSterious]

"Mainly because I understand what it is like to be torn away from a parent..."

The thing is, they were "torn" away from their parents long before the raid ever occurred. Most of these kids are separated from their birth mother at an early age and raised by other women in the group. Most aren't even sure who their natural mother is, let alone their father.

[ansel12]

“Hang in there. I have never seen so many individuals so willing to defend a bunch of perverts and child molesters.

All I can say is this forum is not the same as when I joined.”

---

Thanks, Judith Anne is taking a stand against the child rape cult also, I’m sure she will have to pay a price as well and be engaged in having to defend the law’s intervention to end the practice.

Strange stuff, especially now that we have learned so much about the 10,000 member cult.

[Knitebane]

What does it mean that Jeff's photo was in every room? If you know why, please tell us.

I don't know what it means. That they have poor taste?

Is that what passes for probable cause to seize children from their mothers?

[Cloverfarm]

Jenny wrote “ ... who’s next? The Amish? The Mennonites? ...”

Beg to differ. Comparing conservative Mennonites or Old Order Amish to the FLDS is not logical. I feel led to point out that Amish and Mennonite men are generally faithful to one wife and support their own families.

They aren’t perfect, of course, but they each are providing for their families with their own hard work, not via welfare fraud.

It’s a very emotional issue of course, of course. So let’s try to look at the facts, not emotions.

[microgood]

The thing is, they were "torn" away from their parents long before the raid ever occurred. Most of these kids are separated from their birth mother at an early age and raised by other women in the group. Most aren't even sure who their natural mother is, let alone their father.

I have heard that. Hopefully there is some parent they have an attachment to. If not, they are probably already so screwed up that foster care may seem normal to them and won't be so bad.

[dalebert]

Do we really know that is how this all started? A hoax?I am disturbed because they were not investigated sooner. Seems like someone mentioned that the girl really did exist. And I was not referring to the womens dress. More like heavily they are medicated, afraid to speak, retarded, abused or as I said before hit in the head one too many times.

[Admin Moderator]

Everyone. Knock off the personal attacks. Stick to debating the issue but don’t make it personal to other FReepers.

[Knitebane]

Let me ask you a question. If you had the misfortune to have a 13 year old granddaughter who lived in that place make a complaint to someone that she was being sexually abused, would you want the authorities to completely check that out even if it would inconvenience some people to do so?

I sure would. Where has that happened in this case?

Now let me ask you a question. If you had the misfortune to have your children seized from you based on a prank phone call wouldn't you want someone to stand up for your rights?

[mnehring]

If you had the misfortune to have your children seized from you based on a prank phone call wouldn't you want someone to stand up for your rights?

I believe the children weren't seized because of the prank phone call. The Texas Rangers went in because of the prank phone call, but the warrant authorizing the CPS to seize the children came after the Rangers filed a report as to what they saw and discovered there.

[Judith Anne]

You don’t know what it means that they have Jeff’s picture in every room? A convicted child molester and accessory to rape?

Seriously?

And we are expected to believe anything you post?

[DoughtyOne]

Okay, lets accept that is true. The authority figures in their lives are still very important to them. Ripping those kids out of a situation that isn’t what you and I would agree is wholesome or even acceptable, is still ripping them out of their familial setting.

You and I can understand why it has happened a lot easier than a five year old kid can.

I suppose a case could be made that the mothers could kill themselves and the children, but I haven’t seen that case made by anyone.

[Admin Moderator]

KNOCK IT OFF!
AM1

[MizSterious]

Denial of the right to rape little girls and subjugate women? Now that’s an odd thing to defend.

[Knitebane]

Which of the fLDS Constitutional Rights have been violated, when, and exactly how?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I direct your attention the parts about being supported by oath or affirmation and about particularly describing the place to be search and things to be seized.

And then I'll ask you to tell me how a hoax phone call naming a man that doesn't even live in the same state is sufficient grounds to seize 471 children.

[MizSterious]

Sport, I agree. I never thought I’d see this on FR.

[Judith Anne]

So, apparently you didn’t read the Smoking Gun statement of probable cause, supported by aaths and affirmations?

No rights were violated. On the contrary, their rights were protected. That was a reasonable search, based on probable cause, oaths, and affirmations.

The phone call was not grounds to seize the children. Go to Smoking Gun and look it up for yourself. It’s 4 pages of information that led to the removal of the children for their own protection.

[mnehring]

I think a lot of people are getting the entire thing bass ackwards. The Rangers, in reporting back to the judge and getting a warrant to seize the children, where protecting the Constitutional rights of those children. The seizure wasn't directly because of the phone call, it was based on the witness testimony of the Texas Rangers who went in to investigate if the phone call was legit.

If a police officer responds to a 911 call about a break in, and sees a man beating a child- even if the 911 call was a hoax, it is his responsibility to stop the man beating the child.