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A Liberal View - Value For Your Taxes (Obama & Rural Conservatives)
Winds of Change ^ | April 13, 2008 | Armed Liberal

Posted on 04/12/2008 9:49:51 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

I haven't had much bandwidth to blog at all, but have been reading with interest (and a little depression) the hoohah about God and guns that Obama has triggered.

Most of the obvious points have been covered, but I had a thought which I haven't seen addressed, and it opens an interesting line of argument for me, so I thought I'd toss it out.

Here's Obama's original quote:

So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing. Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter). But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

A firestorm erupted - predictably - and Obama responded:

"Lately there has been a little typical sort of political flare up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois who are bitter," Obama said Saturday morning at Ball State University. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through." "So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about you know how things are changing."

After acknowledging that his previous remarks could have been better phrased, he added:

"The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to."

"And so they pray and they count on each other and they count on their families. You know this in your own lives, and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention. Government that is fighting for working people day in and day out making sure that we are trying to allow them to live out the American dream."

My own take on it is well-covered by Big Tent Democrat:

Personally, I have never seen a pol say what Obama said. Political scientists, bloggers, intellectuals, ME, yes. But pols? Never. See, pols have a different job - get votes. Obama already has trouble getting white working class votes. This statement certainly does not help him. But I think he will ride it out - precisely because of his "Creative class"/Media Darling status. and Mickey Kaus:

Because Obama's comments are clearly a Category II Kinsley Gaffe--in which the candidate accidentally says what he really thinks--it will be hard for Obama to explain away. Here's another thought: Obama believes that the people he's discussing - poorer, gun-owning, church-going economic left-behinds in rural America are bitter and negative toward government because it hasn't delivered.

There's an alternate hypothesis, which is that they don't think it's supposed to. That there are a solid body of Americans who believe - with whatever justification or historical validity - that government's role is to leave them alone. I'll bet that people who believe those things tend to migrate away from major cities or never move to them, tend to go to church a lot, believe in guns, and in American culture. They are - wait for it - culturally conservative.

I think liberals can reach them, should reach them, and must reach them. I think they can because I think there are ways to reframe the 'values' issues that have divided us, and because I think that there is a key issue to bridge - the perceived value of what those poorer, gun-owning, church-going folks in small towns actually get from the government.

I think that the grandparents of these voters voted solidly Democratic because they remember that they got electricity from a Federal program, and paved roads from a Federal program, and home, business and farm loans guaranteed by Federal programs. They might not have been comfortable with elitist East Coast politicians, but they had some concrete sense of what they got for voting for them.

I've asked for a long time what, exactly the Democratic Party has done in the last 20 years for a typical 35-year-old single mother who works as an administrative assistant in a big city. The answer: not a hell of a lot. Not anything I can think of.

To that I'll add the question of what the Democratic Party has done in the last 20 years for the 35-year-old son of a factory worker who manages to get temp manufacturing jobs, alongside his wife, and tries to support his three kids doing it. He's getting by because his dad had a great retirement plan and equity in his house. To him, the government wants to close his hunting areas to protect spotted owls, let his 14 year old daughter get an abortion without his consent, and charge him more and more for the priviledge.

So in a way, I'm agreeing with Obama - without the cultural baggage, which may be devastating to his candidacy.

What I hope to hear from Obama - and what will excuse his middle-class raised, Harvard-educated elitism to those folks is a simple statement of what he proposes to do for them. What's the value they get from voting Democratic.

Because they've been ripped off for twenty years by parties in hock to the wealthy, who have tipped the economic tables in favor of capital, and the cultural tables in favor of Cambridge and Marin. A GOP that continues to tip the tables in favor of capital and substitutes Scottsdale and Buckhead certainly isn't any better.


TOPICS: Government; Outdoors; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; democrats; elections; obama
Interesting: The first comment is priceless.
1 posted on 04/12/2008 9:49:51 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I hate the fact that he panders to the lazy. This Country rewards anyone that works hard. They that are willing may need leadership but that usually starts early.


2 posted on 04/12/2008 9:56:50 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
There's an alternate hypothesis, which is that they don't think it's supposed to. That there are a solid body of Americans who believe - with whatever justification or historical validity - that government's role is to leave them alone.

Amazingly, this essentially gormless individual manages to stumble onto it, mostly. But not to worry, he quickly veers off again into the wishful emoting--certainly not thinking--for which liberals are notorious.

One need only read the comments of the framers of the Constitution and the formative American generation to hear that their belief is that government's role is ... surprise! surprise! ... to leave us alone. Yet oddly, Mr. Clueless here wants to question the historical validity of that position.

It was, in fact, the nearly universal position of Americans until the 1930's. Unfortunately, something snapped in the American psyche with the Great Depression, and all the evidence that the aggressive government intervention of the New Deal did virtually nothing did not dispel the ridiculous idea that you can take money from the most productive sector of the economy--the private economy--and turn it over to the least productive sector of the economy and that this will somehow "make money." And now, nearly half of the people in our country including the loser who wrote this column cling to this risible belief, all evidence of trillions of wasted dollars and destroyed lives to the contrary notwithstanding.

Ultimately then, what can Obama offer to those of us poor, religious, embittered conservatives who see no value in what the government offers? Why, nothing at all, because government has nothing to offer. It merely takes. There are some places were it must take, because government is a necessary evil. Unlike libertarians, conservatives understand that government is necessary, and unlike liberals, we understand that it is evil.

Like the authors of countless liberal "analyses" of What's Wrong With Kansas or Deer Hunting with Jesus the narcissist writer of the instant piece (and BHO himself) assume that we haven't heard the liberal message, or that we've heard it but lack the sophistication to understand it, or, if they're in a particularly generous mood that we've heard, and sort of understood, but that we've been disappointed in the outcomes.

None of the condescending BS is true. He have heard the message. We understand it fully--far more fully than the liberals themselves do. But we have rejected it, because its message is a lie.

3 posted on 04/12/2008 11:03:51 PM PDT by FredZarguna (PA's newest and shortest term DemocRAT: 16:55 3/24-8:05 4/23/2008.)
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To: FredZarguna

Excellent analysis.


4 posted on 04/13/2008 5:18:15 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The problem with flyover country is all we have left is our guns and religion. The government already took everything else away. And if you look at the blue states, the government already took those away.

And now little Barak is planning on taking the rest away.


5 posted on 04/13/2008 7:53:31 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Obama will create utopia on earth.


6 posted on 04/13/2008 8:34:32 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Obama: baby is punishment; tax increase is bundle of joy)
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