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Is There Any Proof For God?
SacredScoop ^ | 04/11/08 | CottShop

Posted on 04/11/2008 12:16:58 PM PDT by CottShop

I suppose a lot of people wonder why a loving God would keep Himself so hidden and unseen when so many people it seems are looking for Him. Some people I suppose wonder why God doesn’t just make Himself known to everyone and ‘just let them decide’ after His physical revelation is made clear?

First off I want to point out that for God to make Himself physically known to us, God would have had to have been physically with everyone right from the beginning of creation, to the present, as people are born every single second, in great numbers, and people would constantly need to be seeing Him personally. Secondly, I want to point out that God was in fact with a great many people- physically and undeniably, for a very long time, and yet, they still refused to believe in Him.

You might be thinking ‘Yeah, but they (the Israelites) were then left alone while Moses went atop the mountain, and they ‘just forgot’ and became scared, and so temporarily lost their faith- that’s understandable.’ I would disagree. God had lived with them, performing one supernatural miracle after another in their presence, and yet, what should have been far more than enough to satisfy them for a lifetime, was quickly forgot once God was separated from them?...

...I will make the claim here, that it is perhaps easier to serve a God who must be sought, than it is to keep serving a God that is constantly with us, and it is perhaps even easier, and it certainly takes a more genuine heart, to find a God who is partially hid than it is to seek a God that is here physically with us.

Sounds strange, I know, but let me explain...

Read the rest at http://sacredscoop.com/?p=766

(Excerpt) Read more at sacredscoop.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education; Religion
KEYWORDS: god; invisible; personal; proof
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To: NoGrayZone
I believe this is where the free will comes to play. If God was here with us 24/7, in our faces, we would have no “choice” but to accept him. I believe He wants us to choose Him with our own free will, nothing more, nothing forced.

EXACTLY right. There is nothing I can add to that. Well said.

41 posted on 04/11/2008 7:12:47 PM PDT by swampdweller
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To: tokenatheist
"How do you know that your deity is the correct one?"

It's called Faith for a reason.

42 posted on 04/11/2008 8:02:31 PM PDT by HangThemHigh (Entropy's not what it used to be.)
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To: swampdweller

thanks for the ping!


43 posted on 04/11/2008 8:13:43 PM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: Rocky

[[The more we learn of the complexity of the cell, the basis building block of life, them more we can appreciate that.]]

I agree absolutely- as MrB states, God’s fingerprints are founf in all areas of nature- even down to hte tiniest IC cells

[[Still, Jesus said that he spoke in parables so that, hearing, they might not hear. In other places, he said, “He who has ears, let him hear.” It seems that God is willing to reveal Himself when we have “ears to hear.”]]

Good point.

Neat Testimony Rocky- God certainly does change fro mwithin eh? & Nothign we do either- That’s the loving work of the Holy Spirit who sanctifies :)


44 posted on 04/11/2008 9:33:45 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: Joe 6-pack

Yeah Joe- I was saved early in life- was real sick till 17- then after lifesavign surgery I felt great and well, kinda went mental doign drugs and drinking & just partying heavey till around 32 or so when after blackign out a number of times, this one night I was workign a wedding as waiter & smashed out of my mind on drugs and drink- blacked otu again- started destroyign the kitchen- owner called my dad who came to get me out of there & I ‘saw’ a shape comming at me & thoguht it waw the cops- really ended up hurting my dad pretty badly- I attacked My ownj fathewr for crying out loud- but he prevailed and wrestled me to ground- Well, when I sobered up- that was that- no more drink for me- or so I thought- couple of years later- got back into it- but mercifully, my disease is in the stomach, and after a coupel of weeks on the drink again- I couldn’t stand hte pain anymore- now I can’t even touch a drink without pain and vomitting thankfully- but along the way, up from rock bottom, I ‘rediscovered God’ again- like you- and now looking back, I think of all the wasted years I had running from Him & just wanna kick myself.

anyway- not to drone on abotu vices- I widsh I’d never started them in the first place- bvut just wanted ot say thanks for sharing


45 posted on 04/11/2008 9:42:28 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: mnehrling

True- it seems obviosu to us, but to unsaved people, it certainly does seem as htough God can’t be seen.


46 posted on 04/11/2008 9:44:09 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: RobRoy

JCL?


47 posted on 04/11/2008 9:51:51 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: LiteKeeper

I’d certainly love to hear what ya got to say on this keeper


48 posted on 04/11/2008 9:53:00 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: swampdweller

[[God is not as “visible” as before, but it is our duty let Him show through us to others]]

Yeah I hear ya Dweller- and that is of course fien with me and I’m glad to do so- but I’d like to udnerstand a bit better by tryign to see the other side of hte coin on the issue too- I know God reveals Himself to htose who seek and all that, but those who state they ‘would believe ‘if only’ God were more visible, sorta have a bit of a point- I think perhaps more might believe- while htere’d still be the hardcore unbelievers that wouldn’t beleive no matter what


49 posted on 04/11/2008 10:01:24 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: NoGrayZone

[[I believe this is where the free will comes to play. If God was here with us 24/7, in our faces, we would have no “choice” but to accept him.]]

I think He could be present with there still being free will- it’s just that p4eople wouldn’;t have the excuse that “Because I can’t see Him I won’t believe” anymore if He were present


50 posted on 04/11/2008 10:03:19 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: CottShop

Study DNA. God’s programming. The process can not exist naturally.


51 posted on 04/11/2008 10:07:35 PM PDT by chesty_puller (70-73 USMC VietNam 75-79 US Army Wash DC....VietNam was safer.)
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To: chesty_puller

[[Study DNA. God’s programming. The process can not exist naturally]

Yeah- I’ve studied it enough to realize that- that’s been a central argument of mine in ID/evoltuion threads- it always amazes me that peopel believe that NEW information can violate nature and ‘evovle’ on it’s own despite hte incredible compelxities behind the DNA and resulting systems associated with it.


52 posted on 04/11/2008 11:23:25 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: CottShop

“I think He could be present with there still being free will-”

No, He can’t. And you gave your own reason.....

“p4eople wouldn’;t have the excuse that “Because I can’t see Him I won’t believe” anymore if He were present”.

That is NOT free will.


53 posted on 04/12/2008 3:49:56 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (A Lesser Evil Is Still Evil.)
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To: swampdweller

Thanks!


54 posted on 04/12/2008 3:50:23 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (A Lesser Evil Is Still Evil.)
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To: chesty_puller

Then why did the programmer make so many errors?


55 posted on 04/12/2008 6:05:38 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: CottShop
CottShop said:
I'd liek to ask for some help in fleshing this out a bit further as this is I think an important issue that many people wonder about- I know I certainly wonder about it- why God decided to remove His presence when it would seem that most people would accept Him if He were to be present dwelling among us. I think some key issues have been touched upon in the article, but I feel as though it's lackign a bit- or perhaps even more than just a bit.

CottShop, God hasn't stopped performing miracles in our lives, but how many of us accept them?

The unbeliever's scoff, but with every storm...every earthquake...every tragedy someone tells the unbelievers how God saved them from being killed or injured.

Here are a few testimonies:
http://www1.wsvn.com/features/articles/specialreport/MI75423

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=517535&in_page_id=1770

http://www.stillwatergazette.com/articles/2008/02/12/news/news500.txt

http://www.disasternews.net/news/article.php?articleid=3616

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=508795&in_page_id=1770

http://wcbstv.com/watercooler/window.washer.accident.2.622511.html

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1347

http://www.newportnewstimes.com/articles/2007/12/19/community/community01.txt

Many more stories here:
http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/index.html?offset=380

56 posted on 04/12/2008 7:51:41 AM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
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To: RobRoy

Amen RobRoy;

For anyone that might be interested.

Hear the eyewitness testimony on the True Existence of Hell. Mary Katherine Baxter was chosen by God to let the world know of the REALITY of Hell.

http://www.spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm


57 posted on 04/12/2008 11:52:51 AM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
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To: Ready2go

I know God still works in marvelous ways i nthe lives of believers, but I think the age of true miracles is past- While God does save from disasters and illnesses, the true miracles that ‘wowed’ everyone like the raising of hte dead, and the restorign of eyesight with nothign but spit and mud and some even say, the restoring of hte denturians head (soem biblical scholars say that Peter cut his head off- not the ear as is commonly thought), are all miracles that we no longer see- the real “That is a true miracle” type of miracles. Today, God does divinely intervene, but in more subdued ways- and while the ways may be incredible in their own right, I don’t think they rise to the levels restoring body parts, walking on water, turnign water into wine, raising hte dead etc.

Awhile ago I heard a Jewish Born Again Scholar talking about hte miracles of Christ, and how they were divinely designed specifically for the Jews and included incredibly ‘content rich’ results that were specific to Jews alone, so that any Jew witnessing these miracles coudl not say that they were not from God. These miracles had very specific Jewish implications, and htey fulfilled prophesy so precisely that the Jews could not honestly deny them when htey saw or heard of them. I wish I still had my notes on the sermon, because it showed just how specific and how significant to Jewish culture and tradition these miracles were- it was r4eally amazing- I’d never known that about hte miracles before- I just htought they were ‘generic’ miracles i nthe sense that they were just done ‘just because’ miracles were needed- but it goes much much deeper than just generic ‘wow, ok, that was cool’ type miracles.

While divine interventiosn in situations such as a cancer patient ‘spontaniously’ going into remision after peopel pray are significant in their own right, these events I’m afraid simpyl don’t rise to the level of somethign like a person walking into a morgue with the morgue director present, saying htey are goign to raise the 7 day dead person, touching htat person, and having them walk out of htem orgue- Can you imagine hte look of astonishement on them orgue person’s face if that were to still occure today like it did in Jesus and apostles day?

It would seem to me to be such a powerful witness of God’s miracles that the morgue person could not deny (at least not honestly deny) that God most certainly did the thing through hte person- whereas a doctor witnessign cancer remission may be wowed, but really, spontanious remissions happen quite often, and aren’t all that uncommon, and docs just shrug their shoulders and say - well these thigns happen- we just don’t know how medically- oh well.

I guess this is what I’m talkign about as to unsaved people stating “IF only God would show Hismelf why hten I’d beleive” (of course we know that peopel still reject even after witn4essing such events, but I hate to say it, but it seems the unsaved who state such thigns might have a bit of a point, and our explanations just seem to me to fall kind of flat as to why God is hid.


58 posted on 04/12/2008 12:37:39 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: Ready2go

I’ve recounted many itmes here on FR My own descent into Hell upon an NDE. If anyone is interested, I can recount it here- I didn’t witness demons or anything- but it was still a very vivid scene of punishement and suffering on my part- whether I went there in my spirit or whether it was just a vivid experience of being dead and brain goign berzerk due ot high fever I can’t say for sure, and will take no stand one way or hte other, butr it was an experience unlike anythign you can imagine. It shook me for the remainder of this life of mine- Others get to ‘go to’ heaven in NDE’s but nope- I went to Hell.


59 posted on 04/12/2008 12:41:55 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: NoGrayZone

[[No, He can’t. And you gave your own reason.....]]

The bible contradicts your statement I’m afraid. God was present with the Jews, yet they still had free will.


60 posted on 04/12/2008 12:43:19 PM PDT by CottShop
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