Posted on 03/19/2008 6:27:57 AM PDT by Dutchgirl
Cromwell: Now, Sir Thomas, you stand on your silence.
Sir Thomas More: I do.
Cromwell: But, gentlemen of the jury, there are many kinds of silence. ... Suppose I were to take a dagger from my sleeve and make to kill the prisoner with it; and my lordships there, instead of crying out for me to stop, maintained their silence. That would betoken! It would betoken a willingness that I should do it, and under the law, they will be guilty with me. So silence can, according to the circumstances, speak! Let us consider now the circumstances of the prisoner's silence. The oath was put to loyal subjects up and down the country, and they all declared His Grace's title to be just and good. But when it came to the prisoner, he refused! He calls this silence. Yet is there a man in this court - is there a man in this country! - who does not know Sir Thomas More's opinion of this title?
Crowd in court gallery: No!
Cromwell: Yet how can this be? Because this silence betokened, nay, this silence was, not silence at all, but most eloquent denial!
Sir Thomas More: Not so. Not so, Master Secretary. The maxim is "Qui tacet consentiret": the maxim of the law is "Silence gives consent". If therefore you wish to construe what my silence betokened, you must construe that I consented, not that I denied.
Cromwell: Is that in fact what the world construes from it? Do you pretend that is what you wish the world to construe from it?
Sir Thomas More: The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law
(Excerpt) Read more at imdb.com ...
I have been in a position of leaving a congregation in accordance with my conscience. I know I am not alone. I am interested in Freeper input in Obama's inaction, not so much on the issue of race, or politics, but from a standpoint of faith.
What was your tipping point? Did you leave quietly or did more than your silence bellow?
I am attending a church now that I am considering leaving. Why? Because the Father speaks contantly about the evils and failings of the United States, calling this country greedy and selfish. He speaks more about Martin Luther King, Jr., than of Jesus. The only reason I have stuck around thus far is because of my wife.
Our family left a Church after a new pastor arrived who had a habit of making excuses for scripture that didn’t fit a liberal agenda. He also planned on bringing in Muslims to speak in order for the flock to accept diversity.
I then began attending actual Masses at St. John Cantius.
I would point out that there is a difference between abandoning a sick congregation and abandoning the Church.
He doesn’t have to leave the church, he just has to speak out against the racism.
My wife and I left the ELCA some years ago for: 1) Anti-American screed from the pulpit after 9/11; 2) pro-gay theology.
By pro-gay theology, I mean the acceptance of gays within the clergy, and within the communicant membership. The Bible teaches otherwise. It also teaches that we can become one with God by divesting our old self. The ELCA has chosen to ignore this requirement.
I’m flabbergasted by the willingness of allegedly faithful people to stay in a church that openly tolerates or promotes sin.
I left when the church decided to become an entertainment mega church.
I left the temple that my family belonged to for over 60 years when the rabbi claimed that Jews in the USSR were “happy living under Communism” and didn’t want to go to Israel. This was in 1970. Of course a few years later when “Saving Soviet Jewry” was all the rage, the temple changed its policy but by that time I found another congregation and was long gone.
your story requested
From the standpoint of faith, adherence to Scriptural principles, and personal integrity, here is my opinion. If I were to feel compelled by conscience to leave a church, I would do so and I would tell people in that church that I considered friends that I feel compelled by the Spirit to leave. I would not publicize my reasons for leaving, as doing so would most likely be gossip. If FRIENDS were to ask why I am leaving, I would share with them my reasons in general terms to the extent I could do so without gossipping. Also, if there were a specific person (such as the pastor) whose actions or teachings had prompted my decision, I would talk directly to that person about my decision and the Scriptural basis for why I believe it compels me to leave.
None of this has anything to do with Obama’s decisions or actions as I can’t see much of anything about his church that relates to Jesus Christ or to His Great Commission to the church.
Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.
Thanks for reminding me of that wonderful scene. I too watched it recently. I also love his speech about the law protecting the devil.
I live in the south. Many elderly members of my congregation are old school racists, however, the leadership of the church has been working to change attitudes. I expect active sinners, like myself,in the congregation, but I look to our leadership to remind me of the right path and set an example.
If the church isn't preaching God's Word, then he should leave. It isn't God's Church anymore.
When I was evangelical protestant, I left a congregation in the early 90s due to coverups by a former pastor and his buddies of his adultery. He thundered against “sin”, but both he and the associate pastor were quite busy with different women in the congregation.
I was then in the Episcopal Church but had been growing more unhappy with the stance of 815 (shorthand for the ECUSA HQ in NYC). The final reason I left the ECUSA in the summer of 2003 was the fiasco of the V.Gene Robinson disgrace. The parish I was attending at the time in Virginia was not one of the usual rad-lib wacko type ECUSA parishes, it was an exception.
If I had ever attended a church where the pastor spewed the racist, anti-Semitic, and anti-USA hatred like Jeremiah Wright, I’d have walked out the first time I heard it and never returned.
Because Obama has so little experience, we need to examine how Obama conducted his own life. The problems with his “church”, and how he dealt with it, are certainly open for review.
Did he recognize that there was a problem?
Were his ears and eyes open?
Did he choose to ignore the problem, or choose not to take a position of leadership?
Or did he simply agree with Rev. Wright and accept his anti-American rants as good teaching?
If Obama wishes to be an agent of change as President, one has to ask, what did he do to change his church?
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