Officer who berated driver loses job in St. George

STLtoday.com ^ | 09/21/2007 | Kim Bell and Greg Jonsson

[beltfed308]

ST. GEORGE — A police officer who was recorded berating a motorist earlier this month has lost his job.

The board of aldermen voted 5-0, with one member absent, to fire Sgt. James Kuehnlein on Monday. The vote was cast in a session closed to the public and wasn't announced until Wednesday, when a notice was posted at the City Hall of this tiny south St. Louis County community.

In a video that got wide viewership on the Internet, Kuehnlein taunts and threatens motorist Brett Darrow, 20, sometimes shouting and using profanity, after questioning him in a commuter lot near Interstate 55. Darrow posted the footage of the Sept. 7 incident on the web.

[robertpaulsen]

I've been on drug threads where the mantra is, "Why are the cops arresting pot smokers who are harming no one when they should be going after the real criminals?"

Let me throw it back. Why are we defending this punk kid who's intentionally antagonizing the cop and wasting his time with his stupid YouTube antics?

"Its also hard to understand why where this incident occurred mattered."

Because I find that cops in a small wealthy city to be just a little more tolerant than in city like St. Louis or Chicago. I'm sure you'll object and say that shouldn't be the case, but I would expect that from one who is disconnected from reality.

"About the only thing you are correct about in this thread is that he is taking a risk"

And he's free to continue. But if he was my son, I'd advise him of the risks in doing so.

[robertpaulsen]

"I imagine it records continuously and either overwrites old data or he changes media."

Sure, that's possible. And the sounds of hoofs could be zebras, not horses.

[robertpaulsen]

"As usual, you are a complete flaky d bag"

And, as usual, you've contributed nothing to a thread other than your personal attack.

[robertpaulsen]

"do you agree with the assessment?"

100%. It was an artificial antagonistic situation set up by the kid and recorded for internet distribution.

[L98Fiero]

“If anything they should be more open to civilian scrutiny, not less.”

Scrutiny is fine but what the kid does isn’t scrutinizing.

“I can not share your protective view of LEOs.”

My view isn’t a protective one, it’s respectful one. People whose job requires them to wear body armor and patrol the mean streets at 2AM tend to get my respect.

“What I saw/heard/read was a citizen do what was required and nothing more.”

Filming the encounter is required? Being in a closed commuter lot after hours is required? I’m not particularly fond of living in a society where people only do the absolute minimum that is required of them.

[Copernicus]

here's my thing with the kid: he used a scanner to find a place where he knew he would be suspicious and there would be a cop there to stop him. he's intentionally using police resources for illegitimate means.

This now drifts into complete fantasy.

May I remind you there are entire websites where you can view video from all over the country that document official behaviour-police and otherwise.

A McDonald's security camera caught a patrol officer when he went ballistic and arrested a cashier because he was certain he had been shortchanged on a $20 dollar bill when in fact the camera clearly documented he gave the kid a $10.

Yeeears ago a stretch of Highway between Louisana and Mississippi (Highway 10?)became so notorious for their vehicle impoundment policies that 60 Minutes outfitted a vehicle with about a dozen cameras and another chase vehicle with another dozen cameras and merely drove on the Highway for about 20 minutes before, guess what?, they were stopped for NO cause by a County Sheriff who was obviously trolling for cash.

I am twice this kid's age and I have started to outfit my daily life with cameras and recording equipment, not necessarily for encounters of the Law Enforcement kind but for all of the weird nonsense that I pass through on a daily basis.

You can bet that stuff will be up and running when I get pulled over by the local sheriff.

Methinks I hear consciousness of guilt when I read some of the outlandish commentary on this young man's activities.

Luck favors the prepared and sure enough, when trouble started he was ready.

As they used to say on Hill Street Blues: "Let's be careful out there"

Best regards,

[Eaker]

Sure, the cop went overboard, but can't you at least be honest as to who was provoking who?

Sure. The cop is supposed to be in charge and he was out of control from the beginning.

The asshole cop started it. How about that for honesty?

If you haven’t noticed you have been handed your ass on this thread just like every thread that I have ever seen you post to. When 99.9% of the posters on FR disagree with you on every thread it should at some time dawn on you that you are the screwball not everyone else.

[beltfed308]

However, I can’t bring myself to do it as I’m laughing to much at him as he digs this hole.

And that's why he's kept around. :>)

[WLR]

It also supports my earlier contention that the Officer is being used as a scapegoat, being thrown under the bus to avoid addressing the real issue.

-snip-

We should not allow this Officer to be the Scape Goat and instead demand that our legislative bodies change the laws related to this.

What do you think should have happened to Kuehnlein?

Smile...

I would have the young man Brett Darrow now come to the Officers Defense and say...

Brett: I am against Officer Kuehnlein being fired and used as a scape goat to deflect attention from a problem that is bigger than the Officer or myself. That was not my intention when I recorded this incident.

Brett: What happened is a problem with the way our Law Enforcement Community has evolved.. Officer Kuehnlein was not doing anything that does not happen every day across the US. What he did was wrong in the eyes of many citizens including myself but not yet in the eyes of many Civilian Peace Officers who know as I do he is being thrown under the bus to quiet down the issue.

Brett: I want to emphasize his actions are not currently illegal ... I think they should be made so to avoid similar incidents in the future and that is the responsibility of the Legislature to correct.

Brett: We expect LEOs to protect our community and I support the Police. I also know that the Citizens rights must come first which is why I am an activist. Those Officers that cannot accept that, need to find a different profession..

Brett: Officer Kuehnlein more than most understands this now having gone thru this experience.. He and I have met and we have both come to an understanding and agreement that Citizens rights come first but Officers need our help to do their job safely as well..and our appreciation and he has mine.

Brett: They also need our patience as they learn the public will no longer give Carte Blanche to what was once common LEO practices such as this. Just remember at one time the “Rubber Hose Treatment” was no joke.. That is for the most part hopefully past today but there are new issues that need to be addressed such as this. I would point out thankfully Officer Kuehnlein did not “Taser Me” and I suspect that system is being misused as well and needs to be looked at.

Me again:

If I were his “Boss” you can be darn sure Officer
Kuehnlein would fully appreciate that he was getting the break of a lifetime..Any sign of attitude or ill will towards the Kid ... as his Chief I would find a way to “manifest” my displeasure.

Officer Kuegnlein: I publicly reject and repudiate any threats publicly or privately made by others on my behalf against Brett Darrow. In truth I was just trying to do my job as I understood it. I now understand how that could be misunderstood by members of the public and why my way of going about it was wrong.

Brett:
I am not trying to get one Officer fired for improperly treating me as an individual.. I am trying to address the larger issue.

Brett:
I would like to be appointed as Citizen Member of a Board that includes Officer Kuehnlein and for us both to take our show on the road to the State Capital and various departments across the state. I would like to work with him towards creating a bright line, educating both citizens and civilian Police Officers so all citizens and civilian LEOs are safer and better served.

Me Again

Thats the best I can come up with on one cup of coffee (lol)

Christ once said something like...

If any one would be first, they must be last of all and servant of all.” Mark 9:35b

When our current crop of leaders from all professions and places get back to that truth...

We will have it made.

W

[tpaine]

thefactor claims:

no matter how much of a d!@k another officer is, i'll always trust him more than any citizen on the street. it's just the way it is.
right or wrong, cops stick together and identify with their own.

You are sworn to protect & defend our Constitution, - and your fellow citizens. -- Your words above cast doubt that you see this as your primary role. Care to explain?

i said trust, not believe.

No, you said right or wrong cops should stick together. Your primary role is to defend our Constitution.

my point is that in dangerous situations, i would rather have the cop i dislike at my side than a non-police officer. that's all. nothing to do with protecting the constitution, as you put it.

I'm starting to wonder about your training as a law officer. You have "nothing to do with protecting the constitution" ?

let's be real here. on any given tour, the less i deal with law-abiding citizens the better. it means they don't need me.

We are real here. You are in effect, defending the actions of a rogue cop. -- You said right or wrong cops should stick together.

[rednesss]

"he used a scanner to find a place where he knew he would be suspicious and there would be a cop there to stop him. he's intentionally using police resources for illegitimate means."

Hey try reading the posts, Brett posted sometime back that this Dept doesn't even use police band radios, they use Nextel phones and use the walkie-talkie feature. So your theory that he used the police scanner to set something up has been debunked. But I'm sure that won't stop you and robertpaulsen from continually repeating things that have been totally refuted and blown up. I guess you might try the he was in a "high crime area" argument again. That one was good for a laugh. Remember don't let the facts get in the way of your emotions.

[rednesss]

From what I'm garnering from the arguments being made by some of the "LEO" Freeper members here is that the old Constitution is just some crappy old document that doesn't have any bearing on modern day life and is just a useless piece of paper that dirty lawyers use to get their filthy stinking guilty clients off the hook with.

I'd suggest that they pick up a copy and read it and ponder its meaning, but I think it would have the same effect as red kryptonite on Superman or holy water to a vampire. Actually I like the vampire analogy better as it seems today that the main mission of all police forces is to suck the life blood out of John Q. Citizen's wallet.

[tracer]

Now that the cop has been fired, I truly hope that the intended victim will take the disgraced swine's offer to "try him" now that he is without a badge, a legal sidearm, and arrest authority.

If the young guy isn't up to the task, he should ask for a volunteer or two who would be willing to "try" the bastard at a time and place of the "young guy's" choosing after a year or had transpired. The participation of a family member or two would be a nice touch.

But only after the bullying bastard has lost a Federal civil rights lawsuit and all of his assets...

[thefactor]

no you dolt, not right cops or wrong cops!

cops stick together just because they stick together. not right or wrong in terms of backing up cops who break the laws. are you serious. have you never heard of figures of speech? if a family member of yours did something stupid or illegal, would you disown them? or would you perhaps condemn their behavior but offer support? that is called sticking together.

and no, dangerous situations have little do with with protecting the constitution. they have to do with getting you and your fellow cops home alive. i'm not talking about a car stop of a 20 year old punk kid. i'm talking about real danger.

you seem to be thoroughly out of touch with how to interpret normal discourse. step away from the computer, go outside and talk to actual people.

[robertpaulsen]

"How about that for honesty?"

It's not.

[rednesss]

I bet I could come up with 9 things that this guy deserves. I wonder if he wants to try me???

[rednesss]

Right, because if it walks like a duck: "Officer #1: Do you want to go to jail for some f***ing reason I come up with?"

And quacks like a duck: "Officer #1: Try and talk back — Talk back to me again. I bet I could say you resisted arrest or something. You want to come up with something? I come up with nine things. Do you wanna try something?"

He isn't a duck. If you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras???? Didn't you say that??? So if I hear an a$$hole I'm supposed to think Mother Teresa????

It's obvious that this guy was an a$$hole before, during, and after this encounter and is sure to carry on in his a$$hole ways long after. But you say we should believe he's as clean as the driven snow, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.

[tracer]

"cops stick together just because they stick together. not right or wrong in terms of backing up cops who break the laws. are you serious. have you never heard of figures of speech? if a family member of yours did something stupid or illegal, would you disown them? or would you perhaps condemn their behavior but offer support? that is called sticking together."

It's also called obstruction of justice, harboring a fugitive, conspiracy, or being an accomplice after the fact. You should go back to the police academy, if you attended one, and sit through the session(s) you slept through or couldn't comprehend...

[robertpaulsen]

Obviously you read the transcript so you know the cop started out by being nice. It was only after the kid started giving him some lip that he lost it.

Why you choose to lie about it is beyond me.

[rednesss]

Giving some lip would be: “Blow me copper, I don’t have to tell you $h!t.” Or “Suck on this a$$clown.” Politely asking a cop who has detained you why they have detained you is not “giving lip”. Why you choose to misrepresent both the tone and content of what Brett Darrow said to Ofc. D!ckhead is beyond me.