Posted on 09/22/2007 8:03:54 AM PDT by beltfed308
ST. GEORGE — A police officer who was recorded berating a motorist earlier this month has lost his job.
The board of aldermen voted 5-0, with one member absent, to fire Sgt. James Kuehnlein on Monday. The vote was cast in a session closed to the public and wasn't announced until Wednesday, when a notice was posted at the City Hall of this tiny south St. Louis County community.
In a video that got wide viewership on the Internet, Kuehnlein taunts and threatens motorist Brett Darrow, 20, sometimes shouting and using profanity, after questioning him in a commuter lot near Interstate 55. Darrow posted the footage of the Sept. 7 incident on the web.
(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...
“Why go so far as to “set up” the cop—”
This kid gets off on it. He does it all the time. No doubt he has MANY encounters with the police that he tapes that are quite benign. Can’t have THOSE getting out, though.
I’m not defending the officer’s actions. I’m saying he was set up, provoked and fell for it hook, line and sinker. I don’t appreciate people interfering with police officers, good or bad, for their own jollies.
Yeah, there are a few cops who are bad apples. A few who are rough around the edges. You push, they push back. But it is St. Louis, Missouri, not Boca Raton, Florida.
Its hard to see why you are so concerned about the welfare of cops who behave inappropriately. Anyone who really believes in civil rights, personal responsibility and the rule of law would want them bounced, regardless of the impact to them and their families
Its also hard to understand why where this incident occurred mattered. The law is not appreciably different in FL vs MO vs IL vs CA. Admitedly St George is more of a speed trap than a real town, but basic rule of law should apply
About the only thing you are correct about in this thread is that he is taking a risk, and there have been online threats posted about him, purportedly by LEOs. I for one am glad he did it, since it got a bad egg gone. What have you done to contribute to freedom recently?
That would look really good in court.
Perhaps rather than "I'll" shouldn't it have been "If I"?
Night sticks and Maglights have been know to make bulbs magically quit working.
Finally only an idiot could have been setup like this.
Actually all it means is that the released segment started 6 seconds before he used the turn signal. What went on before or afterward is not relevant, and was not posted. I imagine it records continuously and either overwrites old data or he changes media. Otherwise it would not have action prior to being stopped and harassed, which is surely coming.
Brent claims the tape is unedited, and that does appear to be the case. The perp's (that is what he is) lawyer has said something about wanting to see the entire tape.
Have you ever been out of Mayberry? Richmond Ave. and Westheimer Blvd. here in Houston are JUMPING at 2am. Every night and twice as busy on the weekend.
Brett claims its for self protection, based on a prior incident. Having had similar experiences with backwoods LEOs I tend to believe him. I record all interactions with LEOs and private security. Saved me a lot of hassle several times, and has put several cops on report with their superiors. MP3 players that record are plentiful and cheap.
My attitude is about that of Brett's I am just smoother and older, which tends to get me hassled a good deal less.
Have you ever filed a complaint against a police officer for abuse? Internal Affairs will laugh in your face. It comes down to your word vs. his. Sorry but you, the citizen, will lose. A friend of mine, a disabled Gulf War Veteran and retired policeman himself, didn't get anywhere when he complained that three State Troopers roughed him up. He went line-by-line with their violations--did they care? No.
I see this situation rather differently. If this cop acted this horribly to this one person, it's highly likely he was doing the same to other citizens like you and me and getting his jollies doing it. He was proud that he could railroad others--now he is reaping what he has sown.
The fact is, there are monsters and bullies within the system, and it appears the system won't police their own. This citizen--irregardless of his motives--took the matter into his own hands and did it legally. My guess is that he probably got legal advice. I don't blame him one bit for doing what he did. Some police do target and harass citizens, and it is getting so that citizens need video proof to protect themselves. Otherwise they are not believed. If my policeman friend had a video camera going, the outcome may have been very different for him.
Who cares if the kid gets off on it, the end result is: this monster cop won't be trumping up false charges on anybody else anytime soon.
Well, I do.
So there's one for and one against.
As usual, you are a complete flaky d bag.
Some cell phones record, too. They'll do in a pinch.
It appears that what he was trying to protect himself from was speeding tickets, having had the experience of believing he wasn't speeding when he got one. He apparently lives in a municipality that's used to keeping it's city treasury going with a speed gun. Since he couldn't produce any evidence it became a case of his word against the cop's, and the system says he can't win that. The video camera is pointed at his dash. The apparent intent is to record what he's doing, not what the cop is doing. That doesn't sound like a "setup" to me.
“Who cares if the kid gets off on it, the end result is: this monster cop won’t be trumping up false charges on anybody else anytime soon.”
First off, nobody trumped up charges on anyone. The officer threatened to and the kid called his BLUFF.
As long as the ends justify the means, huh? How very progressive of you.
I see this as a winning situation for everyone but the perp, who deserved what he got and should not be wearing a badge. If this were a gas station armed robbery and the perp got caught we would be applauding it. At a macro level this is no different.
If you haven’t already done so, you need to consider relocating.
“Do you have any vids of cops stopping you that have acted professionally? “
Nope. I had one from an officer that acted the way he was supposed to, but he was wrong about stopping me. He said I turned out of the wrong lane and didn’t know the road was a dual left turn lane. It was late and he was just looking to stop someone so he gave me a warning, but he was still wrong and the video showed it.
I accidentally deleted this video while trying to ‘protect’ it that night.
Before I had the video camera though, I had lots of dealings with good officers. Even when I got tickets, I deserved them and the officers were professionals.
One time I parked in a parking lot of a closed business at about midnight. This furniture store has a large parking lot and they turn all the lights off at night so it’s real dark. I went there to adjust my headlights. A Shrewsbury police officer pulled in and I walked over to talk to him. I told him what I was doing and he said that was no problem at all and was a great spot to do it because in metro St. Louis, there are lights everywhere else. It felt nice not to be treated like a criminal right away.
I do not believe it is right for anyone outside of law enforcement to goad cops into confrontations in the hopes one will blow his top. I read the transcript of this. The cop didn’t get out of his car threatening the guy. It took a while of the kid being ompletely uncooperative in response to legitimate questions be fore the cop blew it. And he did blow it and that is not the way a cop should behave. It’s not the temperament a cop should have. That said, I am of the belief that if the kid had been honest and cooperative, none of this would have happened.
I’m sorry, I just don’t think the kid is right...nor the officer. This is a case of ends justifying questionable means. I don’t like it and it’s going to make cops’ jobs more difficult.
If this were the media doing this to an American soldier, FReepers would be calling for the reporter’s head and cheering the soldier.
“No cars broken into in that lot? That should be public information and easy to find. Yet this lie wasn’t reported by the press? “
Yes it should be, but St. George won’t have that info. It’s state owned property and all crimes that happen on that lot are supposed to be reported to the Missouri highway patrol.
Once again, I’ll tell you being in a high crime rate (if you insist on calling this one) is not reasonable suspicion.
“While “reasonable suspicion” is a less demanding standard than probable cause, there must be at least a minimal level of objective justification for the stop. An individual’s presence in a “high crime area,” standing alone, is not enough to support a reasonable”
“If it is not safe for a citizen to be in that public place (even at a legal time and in a legal manner), I don’t believe he has to. I am, however, willing to make an exception in your case.”
It’s not his call to decide. If Missouri thought that lot was trouble after night, they would limit the hours it was open. THEY DON’T! It’s the same thing as pulling into a 24 hour grocery store parking lot.
“You screwed up and forgot your cellphone. It was important that you get it back that night, even though you had your mom’s cellphone. Your friend only lived 20 minutes away (5+15=20) yet you asked her to get out of bed, get dressed, and drive most of the way to meet you in a deserted parking lot at 2am. Nice guy.”
If you read my post before, you would realized we talked about meeting in another parking lot, but it was on private property and we would have been stopped by the police. This was the only open lot between us.
It was important to get my phone back. That is my work phone for my painting business and I need it. She had work the next and I wouldn’t be able to get it until that night.
“Officer #1: How we doin? What’s going on?
robertpaulsen: Good morning officer. Oh, I’m waiting to met a friend. She’s on her way.
Officer #1: Why you parkin here?
robertpaulsen: Well, this lot is about half way, and she’s bringing me my cell phone that I forgot. Can I park here for about 15 minutes and wait for her? It’s a commuter lot right?
Officer #1: Yeah, but we have problems after midnight time. People break into cars. You got any ID on you?
robertpaulsen: Yeah, I do. Here ya go.
What’s wrong with that?”
Cause in my experience that’s not how it goes when I answer the LEOs questions. It goes more like this.
“Officer #1: How we doin? What’s going on?
Darrow: Good morning officer. Oh, I’m waiting to met a friend. She’s on her way.
Officer #1: Why you parkin here?
Darrow: Well, this lot is about half way, and she’s bringing me my cell phone that I forgot. Can I park here for about 15 minutes and wait for her? It’s a commuter lot right?
Officer #1: Yeah, but we have problems after midnight time. People break into cars. You got any ID on you?
Darrow: Yeah, I do. Here ya go.
Officer #1: Are you sure you’re not here to do drugs or buy some?
Darrow: No officer
Officer #1: Only people out at this time of night are cops, people coming and going to work, and kids up to no good. Which one are you?
Darrow: None of those officers
Officer #1: You calling me a liar? Get out of the car. I’m gonna search your car.
And so on... If you talk to an LEO, they get to personal, and you stop, that can be seen as suspicious according to the courts. A cop that approaches you isn’t looking to be your friend, he’s looking to bust you. He sees everyone as a criminal. Not that it’s really his fault. They teach them that in the academy.
I wouldn’t talk to a stranger about my business out in a parking lot and a police officer is no different. If you had seen this board LEO (you can see him waiting on their only main road waiting for someone going 1 MPH over the limit) turn around right away, come up behind me, and hit the lights, you would have been like WTF too. You have to know this town to know what I mean. They hire all the reject cops that can’t get on real departments and pay them hardly anything. It’s just the cops on power trips.
Heh! The Marion Berry defense.
I don't appreciate people interfering with police officers, good or bad, for their own jollies.
First of all, BS on the interference call. And get used to it. In the wake of this incident, there will be more such episodes when our public servants misbehave. You should be thanking him for a job well done!
Some have indicated that abuse of authority is in a US code. Also that Texas had it codified. This is really a federalism issue that maybe codified by the states. But a system of standards of conduct that can be grounds for firing is probably in place that would allow discipline of officers who violate that code. Most cops do not go off like this one. He is the exception. But with a alert populace more of this type of behavior can be brought to the light of day and the bad apples can be cleaned up. I was concerned the number of people who felt that Darrow, who is also a Freeper, was wrong to use current technologies to catch out the cops that are bullies. If cops perform in a professional way then there would be no scandal. Police needs to police themselves. By the way, I appreciate your courteous and reasonable post.
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