Libby Live: Tuesday, February 13, 2007

Just a reminder of some of the background here. When Fitz subpoenaed Judy and Cooper, he also subpoenaed their employers. Time eventually handed over Cooper's emails. But NYT said they had nothing. So whatever Abramson says today, she is going to say there was no documentation from this purported Judy Miller meeting. Who knows, though, whether we'll finally get a description of what status Judy was in July 2003, when she couldn't serve as a cut-out for Libby's leak of Plame's identity. Remember, they had a big knock down discussion to get to Judy's severance agreement, so Abramson may not be able to explain that in detail. Here goes. I'm not entirely sure that Abramson is first (the NYT folks don't know either).

Fitz: Sorry for your apparent cold. I apologize for failing to bring this to your attention yesterday. First, your honor had ruled that way at the prior CIPA proceeding. Your honor had clearly indicated

Fitz Yes. February 5 at page 21. The court said, if the govt is going into rebuttal. It's only fair for the govt to bring that out. Then your honor said is the govt prepared to stipulate that she was not in WINPAC to introduce this.

Fitz The only discussion is in the record here. She understood this. I would point out additionally, we understood, throughout the case, that unless the Defense did something, we couldn't introduce her status. But if they did, we would have put up a witness to explain that she was CPD, both for Judy and for Fleischer. If it's off the table that we can talk about her status, I think it's perfectly appropriate to say she doesn't work at WINPAC but at CPD. The protection that we not discuss Plame's employment was a shield, and now it's being used as a sword.

Walton Maybe you're right in the broader context. If he did tell other people that she worked at CPD, Mr Libby did provide info on where she worked. From a broader perspective I might agree with you.

9:37

MORE PRELIMINARY FENCING:

Walton cedes the broad issue.

Fitz I think it's plainly clear if we had said we're calling someone from CIA to talk about Plame being CPD, if we're now piercing that line,

Walton It's an open question. I would have concerns that even though impeachment of Miller was limited to her, that's an issue we're going to have to address when we get to govt's case.

Fitz I'd hate to call jury in for rebuttal case, I'd hate to call just one witness. I think the line that had been drawn that we couldn't talk about her status.

Walton I don't think I need to rule now, I'd like my clerk to do some research.

Jeffress I've given Zeidenberg a stipulation. As far as this rebuttal issue, I want to make clear that I'm not presenting evidence of where she does not work.

Walton when it comes to rebuttal, I've got to make a decision on whether the info of where she does work should come in.

Jeffress We can argue that later.

Fitz My intention is to stipulate to two facts.

Walton I can't force a stipulation on the parties. If you don't, they have to call someone from CIA.

Fitz Once your honor rules, we can handle this.

Walton mentions that Mitchell will be here at 1:30. She was going to testify without the jury, first, so Libby's team knows whether her testimony would be to see if they can admit it. Wells was explaining to him whether or not she was going to, but he was not by the mike and then walked away from the camera. Helpful, Ted. Think of the media room!!!

Walton It would be my view that the only probative value that her statement would have would be if jury could consider substantive evidence. Since it's my view that it can't be used for that purpose, in my view it does qualify as hearsay.

9:48

Wells I don't to reargue my point. But I'd like to call her to talk about how aggressively she was working on the story. Once I show the intensity with which she was covering the story, I would have the right to question her whether she heard a rumor, and then I'd have the right to impeach her. [Sure seems like he's rearguing the point–btw Ted has his humble personality on right now, speaking real low and rationally.]

Wells I'm willing to sit on the record as is. I do believe I would have the right to impeach her. I'm not calling her as a subterfuge. I will accept that the record is closed. I will release her. My appelate record is protected.

Walton The intensity of what she was doing in and of itself doesn't add to your defense.

Wells If you accept that the intensity of her work is relevant, then I submit that the statement is admissible.

Walton The intensity doesn't mean anything UNLESS you're arguing she may have heard it. The mere fact that intensity of investigation doesn't help your case. You've got to couple the two for it to have any value in your case. You may perceive it as having probative value. It has nil value.

Wells That's why I'm willing to rest on the record with that understanding. [Sounds like we won't see Mitchell, sorry Tom Maguire.]

(You are going to give me a guilt complex, Peach)

THE TESTIMONY OF JILL ABRAMSON (Which provides a moment of humor):

9:58

Hey I was right!! It is Jill Abramson (I'll use J and JA)]

JA I work at NYT, I'm managing editor. I worked for many years in Washington, EdInChief of Legal times, almost a decade at WSJ as reporter and editor,

J In addition to being Mg Editor, do you teach journalism

JA Once a week seminar at Yale

J July 2003 were you working at NYT, duties?

JA Washington bureau chief. Supervise bureau of reporters and editors about 50 journalists.

J Did you have "working relationship" with Judith Miller

JA I did, I was not her main editor, she did not report out of the bureau

J In July 2003, were you working with Ms Miller on a story

JA She was doing companion piece to larger investigative effort by bureau reporters on flaws in pre-war intell, and Judy Miller was working on companion piece on fruitless search in Iraq. I was editing that.

J Recall that July 6 NYT carried op-ed by Wilson? Did that article cause something of a stir.

JA It caused a stir, in the ensuing week we had reporters chasing that story.

J Did Judith Miller come to you to recommend NYT pursue story.

JA I have no recollection of such a conversation.

Bonamici In your dealings with Ms Miller, did you sometimes find your self tuning out of conversations.

JA It's possible that I occasionally tune her out.

Witness dismissed.

Laughs all around in the media room.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN HANNA (You will love the editorializing in this one):

One more note: in (dis)honor of John Hannah's bellicose statements of late, I will not follow my normal practice of referring to witnesses by their initials. Instead, I will refer to him as "The Year of Iran."

Cline up, C and The Year of Iran

The Year of Iran: John Hannah, I work at OVP, currently VP's NSA. Advising VP on all matters concerning national security, foreign policy, writing an awful lot of memos for him.

C When begin duties as NSA

The Year of Iran End of October 2005. Mr Libby preceded.

C When Libby had position as NSA, did you work with him

The Year of Iran Very closely

C What was your position

The Year of Iran I served as Mr Libby's principal deputy for Nat Security Affairs, prior to that responsibility for Middle East.

C Describe duties then

The Year of Iran Trying to keep Mr. Libby and through him VP informed on all matters relating to foreign policy in ME

C Can you give us sense, unclassified level, on those issues

The Year of Iran Iraq, Iran, palestinian, Saudi Arabia, AQ My responsibilities touched on all those areas.

C Other deputies

The Year of Iran He certainly had a principal deputy, Eric Edelman, two other, one responsible for Asia, one responsible for strategic planning.

C All reported to Libby, each had particular areas of responsibility, Libby responsible for all those areas. You mentioned Edelman. Do you recall that Edelman left on June 6, 2003

The Year of Iran Don't recall exact date, but that time frame.

C New principal deputy took rein in July 2003, who was that?

The Year of Iran Victoria Nuland

C During the time between, was there a principal deputy

The Year of Iran I took on the duties.

C You were short one deputy?

The Year of Iran That's correct.

10:16

The Year of Iran Duke, Stanford, law degree at Yale. Entered govt in early 1991, worked for SOS Baker. In Policy planning, Asked to stay on in Clinton Admin, worked for SOS Christopher. Left for about a year, invited to come back by Christopher, stayed through 1996, left to get a law degree and start a family. Joined OVP in early 2001.

C May 2003 to March 2004, Libby's titles

The Year of Iran COS, NSA Advisor, Asst to Pres

C You're currently NSA Advisor, full time job?

The Year of Iran Yes

C Addington COS, full time job?

The Year of Iran Looks like it to me.

C Fair to say Libby had two full time jobs.

The Year of Iran From my perspective, yes.

C Daily info flow?

The Year of Iran 10-12 advisors in my office, constantly streaming through 100s if not 1000s pieces of info on nat security matters. I've got an active set of meetings, either with foreign officials or govt officials. Try to support VP in his meetings.

C You find it challenging? Overwhelming?

The Year of Iran It can be, yes.

C How well did Libby remember things.

The Year of Iran On certain things Scooter had an awful memory.

The Year of Iran Times too many to count, I'd come into Scooter in the morning, I'd give my views, give an analysis, show up 6 hours later that evening, have Scooter repeat back to me the recommendations I told him that morning. It was very striking.

C WOuld you call that to his attention.

The Year of Iran I did once, in exasperation, but that was Mr Libby.

C Did he maintain files when NSA?

The Year of Iran He maintained them through his own assistant.

C Volume of files.

The Year of Iran Several person-size safes filled with top to bottom with materials.

C Safes would hold classified materials.

The Year of Iran Those were the only files I'd have recognition of, since they were housed in the suite where I maintained an office.

C If Libby had files elsewhere you would not be familiar.

C Typical work day for Libby.

10:23

C How begin day

The Year of Iran MIB with the Vice President

C What time?

The Year of Iran 6:30-7 in the morning, often held at VP residence.

C On days in town, what then.

The Year of Iran Join motorcade into WH, join a senior staff meeting, return to office, deputies have time with him, begin to brief him, alert him to issues.

C Fair to say Libby's time consumed with meetings

The Year of Iran YES (emphatic), he would have in any single week had multiple meetings, Deputies committees,

C I'll take you through each. What you and I will be talking about has to do with his responsibilities as NSA.

The Year of Iran Best knowledge i had, I was often aware of other meetings, on domestic policy issues.

C His COS responsibilities not a matter you concerned yourself with, let's talk about some of these meetings, Was Libby one of the Deputies who attended these meetings? Issues Deputies committee deal with.

The Year of Iran High importance to US, where decisions need to be made, full panoply of issues, every region of the world, as well as WMD and terrorism, economics and trade?

C Deputies deals with every major foreign policy issue

The Year of Iran Anything that is on its way to being decided.

C How often would DC meet?

The Year of Iran 45 minutes-hour. Multiple times in a single week. Sometimes several DC in a single day.

C Did you from time to time attend with Libby.

The Year of Iran Each agency would have the back bencher.

C DCs often involved strongly worded exchange of views. [translation, did Libby fight with State?] Fair to say Libby "held his own."

The Year of Iran Very active participant in those meetings.

C Customary way to prepare?

The Year of Iran For each meeting, someone on staff would draft a memo for him based on background materials.

TYOI Certainly times his schedule too full, he didn't read everything.

C Sometimes in a rush get a memo before a meeting

TYOI Sometimes even IN the meeting. He'd be briefed before a meeting if we thought something important was going to happen.

Sidebar

HANNA CONTINUES (We are learning that Libby was very, very busy having lots of meetings...I will not bore anyone with my opinion of the effectiveness of lots of meetings):

10:31

TYOI's hair is much greyer than in the picture above. I guess it ages you, planning a useless dangerous war in Iran.

C hands TYOI something.

C These memos have had material removed to protect classified info, correct? Are these memos that were prepared for Libby and passed through you for DC meetings? Dates June 11, June 12, June 13, June 14, and (one more date)

Walton approach

Walton These exhibits I will offer into evidence, they're not offered for the truth

C Take a look at 413. Is that a memorandum prepared for Libby in anticipation of DC on Indonesia, A memo prepared for Libby in anticipation on DC on Iraq on 6/11/2003? Memo prepared for Libby for DC on Pakistan 6/12/2003? Memo prepared for Libby for DC on Afghanistan on June 11?

TYOI Yes

C I've asked about DCs. Let me ask about Principals Comm meetings? Did he attend?

TYOI Quite frequently. The heads of those agencies that prepare for the President. They get together on a regular basis (not as frequent as DC) and engage in their own discussion on those issues.

C Head of State is SOS. Head of Defense is SOD, Head of OVP is VP. When you're talking about principals committee, you're talking about people at that level of govt talking about issues. What subjects cover?

TYOI Same full range of issues

C Did you ever attend with Libby

TYOI I probably would have in place of Libby. I don't recall ever attending in support of Libby.

C When you attended in Libby's place, what responsibilities

TYOI Take notes, keep a record.

C Be called upon to prepare VP for meetings like that, called upon to provide support to VP.

TYOI Notes to prod his attention, usually not in speaking role.

C How often would PC meet?

TYOI At least 2X week. Often more than that. Given that this has been a very active period for nat security, it could have been multiple times a week.

C DCs, PC meetings, would Libby meet from Time to time with foreign officials [didn't ask about Chalabi, who is on Libby's schedule at this time period.]

TYOI With VP and alone. A regular occurence.

C Process by which Libby would prepare?

TYOI Not entirely different, usually not as much background, we'd prepare with staff's own memos. A little background material.

C Different category: meet with VP

TYOI Yes, on daily basis. Depended on subject matter if I was included.

C Without delving too deeply, would the discussions cover full range of Nat Security matters [hey, I guess this means we don't get Dick either.]

C You mentioned senior staff meetings.

TYOI A staff meeting convened by President's COS plus Libby convenes his own with VP's staff

C Were both ones that Libby would attend regularly.

TYOI Yes, as participant on Pres side, conduct meeting on OVP side.

C Would he meet with reporters

TYOI I can't tell you he did it an awful lot.

C Were you ever present?

TYOI I may have been in the room once or twice, I don't recall ever participating.

C What time would his day end?

TYOI 8PM, 9PM.

C Only time you got to see him was in evening, when press of business had slowed.

TYOI Absolutely, if you wanted to get Scooter's attention.

C Typical patter for May 03-March 04.

Taking a break.

THEY ARE BACK AND TESTIMONY CONTINUES (In which you get the distinct feeling that firedoglake does not have warm feelings for the Administration):

10:46

While we're waiting, Christy asked if he came off as whiny in person as he does on paper (or screen?). Yes. He has a really nasally voice and no apparent tonal modulation. ADD (Addington) came off as more personable than this guy (and didn't have the nasally voice). They really seem to fire themselves some soulless bureaucrats, huh?

TYOI remains on the stand. I've got a good idea, Libby! Keep this guy on the stand for the rest of the year, and we'll avoid TYOI!!

He just caught someone's eye, he's laughing a bit. Boy, they don't put the security bureaucrats through the same paces as they do journalists, huh?

Jane's here–she got bored out of the courtroom, I guess. She says Libby laughed heartily when TYOI told the story on Libby's forgetfulness. Yuck yuck yuck–these are the kind of people who run our national security!! Can't remember from morning till evening. No wonder they can't keep Sunni and Shiite straight.

[Marcy puts her soapbox away and will resume the liveblog now]

Jury's back in.

C Focusing on this time period, Iraq was significant event. Saddam had falled April 2003. May 2003, Libby with assistance from you was helping to determine proper size and role of security forces. Determining the proper composition of governing entity. Governance issue in Iraq, was a particular interest and concern.

TYOI Very important issue for us. [then why did you F it up so badly]

C Following fall of Saddam, Libby grappling with sensitive issues on role of Iraq. June July 2003, Libby considered plans for CPA, included consideration of alternative courses of action. Iraqi security, use of third country troops, and governing Iraq, incl when to establish governing body, and how it would be composed.

TYOI Yes, that's correct.

C Build up police forces.

TYOI Timing sounds right.

C Libby believed these insufficient to foster a peaceful Iraq.

TYOI The issue of the size and speed of new security forces was an important issue that was vigorously debated, Libby was involved in that as major participant. [Huh–Libby thought what they were doing was sufficient?]

C June July 2003, Libby urgent discussion of Iraqi security. Participated in basis for coalition and Iraqi forces as leading part of security infrastructure. US perceptions of security situation changed repeatedly from June to December, correct?

TYOI There were changes and alterations made to fit changing environment.

C Were those matters something Libby concerned with.

Fitz May I approach

Sidebar.

11:04

C Plans for governing Iraq changed repeatedly (names 4 changes)

C Loyalty of potential Iraqi leaders, which factions to participate in political process [like Chalabi dealing intell to Iran?] Libby active participant?

C Move to Iran. Events in Iran also particular concern?

C Why were events in Iraq of such concern

TYOI We had tons of troop in danger. Iraq was one of the two or three most important initiatives any president has made into the ME, concerning terrorism, WMD, democracy, in region of highest nat security interest to the US. [some laughs in the media room.]

C Libby dealt with Iran's nuclear weapons. Arrest and potential harboring of AQ members, and Iran's involvement in Iraq. Monitored WMD efforts, whether Iran would sign IAEA protocol,

TYOI Those were a concern as soon as I started the job.

C Live issues in May 03-March 04. Also evaluated Iranian efforts to influence IRaq. Considered methods to discourage Iranian support for terror groups inside and outside of Iran.

TYOI A very active effort to start Iranian terrorism either against its neighbors or American targets in the ME.

C Also monitored student protests in Iran. Student protests erupted.

TYOI Signs of internal turmoil in Iran, that "people" in USG monitored quite closely.

C Student protests something that you and Libby were monitoring.

TYOI tried to watch internal sit in Iran closely.

C Iran harboring AQ leaders, some of whom had contacts outside of Iran.

TYOI THis has all been declassified by govt?

C Just a yes or no, please?

TYOI Yes.

C Libby considered possible means of obtaining custody of AQ terrorists.

C Looking at it in unclassified terms, why was Iran such a concern.

TYOI Iran a major state in ME, one of the most populous, for the last 25 years a declared adversary of the US, probably trying to acquire nukes, and WMD, major state sponsor of terrorism, in this case, shared a border with Iraq at a time when we had forces in Iraq. Some reason to believe Iran trying to undermine US purposes.

C For you and Libby. Dealing with Iran Libby devoted considerable amount of time and attention. Turn to ME [hey, Cline, Iraq IS theME]

C Addressed the Israel-Palestine relationship including Abbas as alternative to Arafat, addressed threat that Hamas posed in ME. Monitored developments between Israel and Palestinians. Marred with ongoing fighting between Israel and militants. Libby considered how continued attacks could delay plans for peace. Describe plan for peace?

TYOI Peace would not be possible with Arafat. US thereupon worked very hard to see if we could foster some kind of new leaders [you mean like Hamas?, what we ended up getting] that would run a clean government. First time in history that we'd seen the emergence, someone took job of prime minister, would begin to take authority away from Arafat. That individual was Abbas.

C Continuing terror attacks, would disrupt plan for peace. Assessed intentions and level of corruption and depth of their relationship with terrorist. Evaluating leaders conduct and assessing possible course of action. Possible withdrawal from Gaza. Met with leaders regarding borders, settlements, security. Assessing whether PA had sufficient security forces. May 1 2003, installed first Prime Minister, potentially first govt not dominated by Arafat. US sought to support new leadership. By encouraging new steps, including disengage from Gaza. New govt fell within six months. Why were these developments in the ME a matter of such concern.

TYOI Historical perspective, every American president has said peace is a high national priority in order to advance our own interests, this conflict seen as part of that effort, and in this case, Bush himself had invested "laid out a vision" for a new middle east, a new Palestinian leadership, we were on the cusp of achieving in this time period.

11:21

HANNAH CONTINUES:

Now on Al Qaeda.

TYOI, trying to prevent another 9/11 on American homeland.

C During this period Libby was concerned with threatened attacks on US interests by AQ and other terrorist groups. During June-July, Libby sought to prevent terrorist groups, incl AQ, from carrying out attacks.

TYOI I'd qualify it, I'm not sure how much my own knowledge goes to time frame. It was a very intense focus from 9/11 on.

C I don't mean to exclude other periods. [Like before 9/11, when they ignored Tenet's hair on fire?]

C Libby trying to prevent terrorist attacks. Concerned that AQ trying to attack US with WMD.

C Concerned that AQ trying to get anthrax, trying to inflict mass casualities

TYOI A continuous concern.

C Talking about these issues, Libby dealt with. That concern manifested day to day?

TYOI Yes. My involvement in specific AQ WMD attacks on homeland was episodic, often as observer, but intensity and regularity of his involvement in those issues very high and very continuous. He was a leader in US govt in all the issues I was concerned with.

11:26

A change in tactic!!

C US intell community had told the Admin had said Saddam was pursuing WMD.

TYOI that was the impression left on policy makers that all those things were true.

C US had invaded Iraq by spring of 2003, but could not account for WMD. Nor had coalition forces been able to capture Saddam or top lieutenants.

TYOI I hesitate, Saddam's sons are captured or killed. But they were still on the loose in that time frame.

C COncern that missing WMD was high. [you mean like the unguarded yellowcake at Tuwaitha? That kind of concern?]

C did Libby have responsibily for enhancing Homeland Security.

TYOI He was the key person within OVP.

C Libby made efforts to understand prospects for mass casualty terrorist attacks.

TYOI Being aware of Scooter's schedule, it was a continuous concern since 9/11, would have been top concern.

C Let me ask you about 9/11. Did you notice a change in level of concern or focus on Libby's part or OVP on terrorism matters after 9/11.

TYOI It was true for them and most others in the USG [Except for Richard CLarke, who had always been concerned? Or Clinton?]

C Did Libby's level of concern for terrorism increase after 9/11.

TYOI Dramatically so.

C Libby monitored defenses against WMD and determined they were insufficient to protect against attacks.

Sidebar with CIA's lawyers.

11:32

C Libby pressed for resources to prepare against these attacks. Prepare against anthrax. During period we're talking about Libby was dealing with nuclear proliferation by AQ Khan and efforts to stop his activities. Concerned that AQ KHan held info and materials essential to design and production and was seeking to sell it to hostile powers, including NK, Libya, and Iran. Proliferation would pose a direct threat to US. Considered various means of preventing AQ Khan from proliferating, considered action against his network. [bored journalists start yelling "KHANNN!"]

C North Korea and nukes. You were aware of concern?

TYOI Very aware, I'd take part in discussions where he would express concerns and views.

C Why important whether NK developed WMD?

TYOI A country that US had fought with, harbored very ill intentions for a country like that, dictatorial, totalitarian regime a concern, in part because also trying to acquire long range missiles.

C NK Had proclaimed it was reprocessing plutonium, Libby assessed course of action [hey, we'll give them Bolton, who'll be sure to mess up any efforts!!! That sounds like a good course of action]

C Two specific events. One involving Turkey, one involving Liberia. Intense crisis from arrest of Turkish soldiers in Iraq. Began shortly after July 4. Following fall of Baghdad in April 2003, Libby sought to improve US relations with Turkey and increase prospects of Turkish support in Iraq, incl by providing Turkish troops. During this time period, Libby supported VP in efforts to respond to Turkish objections to arrest of Special Forces unit in Iraq. SF in civilian dress.

TYOI Some of the details I don't know.

C Do you recall that shortly after July 4, Libby and VP involved in discussions with Turkish PM.

TYOI Between VP and Turkish PM, yes

C did Libby have role in preparing VP on that. How long it took to get matter resolved?

TYOI Better part of the week [actually, it was four days before they got released, hey TYOI, pick me as NSA]

C Turks claim that USG had long known that USG knew of this unit.

TYOI No personal knowledge.

C Arrest caused great concern and animosity. Turks claim troops wrongly seized and humiliated. Required personal intervention of VP to restore relations.

C VP asked to open dialogue with PM. Libby participated in prep for this dialogue. Why was this important

TYOI Immediate neighbor, hopes Turkey might get involved, more broadly, Turkey treaty ally of US, very strong military, in strategic part of the world. All areas of great importance to US. To have a crisis with close treaty ally, was a matter of high importance. [of course, the relationship with close treaty ally France was worth throwing aside.]

C Liberia. Do you recall Libby dealing with unrest in Liberia. Culminate in fall of Charles Taylor. Danger to occupants of US embassy in Monrovia. Libby participated in efforts to respond. During this period, Libby evaluated this information and timeliness or effectiveness.

TYOI I was not at that point in time responsible for Africa, so he would have been getting those through others. I would have been aware of them. They would have filtered up through me.

C You knew level of concern that Libby was involved in? Libby assessed info on intent and possible response. Considered threats in Monrovia, considered use of force. Libby was concerned.

TYOI yes.

C We have discussed a number of nat security issues. Some were issues on which you had personal responsibility. Mr Libby responsible for all of these issues. Other nat security issues beyond these ones? What we've been discussing was part of his job as NSA to VP. That was half his job. [A third, if you count his full time job responding to Joe WIlson]

11:47

Juror questions.

11:54

Well, that was fun. And TYOI? He can be damned hesitant when he realizes it's now HIS job to protect the OVP, and he ain't going to be bale to do it. He was just cleaning his ear out on the stand. Now he has a grimace. I'm going to write a very dry play sometime called "Witness during the Sidebar." What a time to observe the psyches of people.

Juror Questions

Walton Aside from Libby's difficulty with memory did it lead him to have concerns about his effectiveness?

TYOI Never

Walton When Libby had memory lapses, what was done to trigger recall of things discussed

TYOI He was quite good at remembering ideas and concepts, very bad at figuring out where they came from, how they came to him.

Walton Would Libby deny that you had informed him of these things

TYOI Never

[no one caught this]

TYOI This was a fairly regular pattern with Scooter. He was good at remembering his own arguments, key points, key factual points that he would want to make, he was good at keeping his arguments organized.

Walton Nat Seucrity issues greater than, less than, equal to normal level?

TYOI As I said, this period since 9/11 has been particularly intense for any relative period of American foreign policy, that period was particularly intense because of initiative in Iraq, liberation of Iraq and aftermath of that, having that many American forces in that country. Particularly fast moving period of time for top govt officials. More intense period in always intense environment

Walton How would you compare intensity with your responsibilities at this time [It is the year of Iran]

TYOI IN some ways there were such major questions of security, and the situation was so new still in a sense that I'm not sure in the 15 or 16 months taht we've experienced anything quite like that. Iraq was sort of on a course [to hell] There have been a lot of adjustments to that course. Nothing quite like that period of intensity. Together with everything else in the region. A little bit unique, at a higher intensity than I'm forced to deal with

Walton Sec Issues every shortchanged by Libby bc of schedule

TYOI That woudl be unfair criticism. Anybody who worked at these kinds of levels, to get through inbox is a real luxury, to stay ahead of the curve, I'd say he managed as well not only in Nat Sec affairs, as well as any other boss I've worked for [better than Cheney?]

No follow-up questions.

Legal issues to discuss with counsel, and an emergency with another case. Will have to deal with it at 1:30, longer lunch than normal. Recess at this time, Counsel will discuss this legal matter. Jury will be back at 2:30.

12:06

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