Posted on 12/17/2006 5:20:45 AM PST by Nasty McPhilthy
A trio of climbers, ascended Mount Hood, under adverse winter conditions — to test their survival skills. The intrepid climbers took gear such as food, fuel, bivvy sacks, a shovel and ropes. These men knew they were taking a big risk – or they would not have taken survival gear with them.
Mountain climbing is a sport for the wealthy who can afford to take weeks off from work to indulge in their expensive hobby.
These clowns have been missing for over a week, and the state is expending tens of thousands of dollars in search and resuce operations.
Why is the sheriff’s department and the U.S Forest Service rangers looking for these men who are addicted to danger?
The taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for the foolhardy thrill seekers who knew they were taking a big risk. The families of the climbers should pay for their own search teams; they shouldn’t expect the government to pay for the reckless chance the climbers took.
From USA Today:
“Deputy Gerry Tiffany, spokesman for the Hood River County sheriff’s office, said its office does not charge for its searches.”
I think it’s about time the government starts charging for rescue operations – when it’s a case of adventurers who place themselves in danger.
I’m sick of hearing about the missing climbers; I’m sick of watching the relatives of the missing men on TV praise the courage of the climbers, and I’m sick at the thought that taxpayers are paying for the rescue efforts.
The plan seems appropriate considering the difficulty of the climb (a 2-3 day climb doesn't require a base camp). And the difference between flying to the moon and climbing mountains is only one of degree; ultimately both activities are a benefit to society.
Will you pay for my funeral if I drive a motorcycle into a brick wall?
No, but I'll pay for the emergency response teams who have to scrape you off the brick wall, put you in a MedEvac, fly you to the hospital, etc. That's part of the cost of living in a free society.
You said -- "Save the lecture since I was born and raised here in Oregon."
I saw that you were from Oregon, which is why I responded. You must have been knocked in the head by one of those logs the surf washed up. You're too grumpy for the Oregonians that I know.
You also said -- "These storms have been far more severe than the last few years and especially the one they were caught in. They were foolhardy to attempt that climb knowing they had a small window going up the most difficult face. That was foolhardy."
Says you, but not most of the people I know. If people thought that way in Oregon, they would have already put major restrictions on the mountain. They don't. People go up there by the thousands, all the time. There are people who are more capable and those who are less capable. They all go up and they go at different times and seasons according to their capabilities.
But, *anyone* can get caught at any time. It doesn't matter what time of the year it is.
Sorry to have run into such a grumpy Oregonian. And "folks" -- the majority of Oregonians are not like that. It's more "live and let live" in Oregon. That's the way it goes there.
Regards,
Star Traveler
See post #185
One has to ask, why didn't they take Personal Location Transponder? These are recommended for all climbers on Mt Hood. Yet, they decided to screw the taxpayers.
bingo.
You asked -- "Have they changed the laws to let you guys pump your own gas yet? :)"
Still using pump jockeys here and still cheaper than across the border in Vancouver. I'm away right now, so I don't know what the current price is, but it is usually cheaper on the Oregon side of the river.
I guess it goes to show you that you can have people pumping your gas and still get cheaper gas.
Oh..., and I don't think the people in Oregon, overall, would want to change it. They would rather preserve their energy for going up the mountain.
Regards,
Star Traveler
"No, but I'll pay for the emergency response teams who have to scrape you off the brick wall"
Hey, thats great..If I get hurt doing something a bit crazy, I will just say, " Hey, no problemo..just send the bill to my pal, NittanyLion" :)))
She'll make up for quality with quantity. :)
They would have never gotten Oregonized...
You said -- "The climbers are the one's in need of an education and unfortunately they are getting one."
I seriously doubt that they are in need of an education that is coming from some posters on Free Republic.
In Oregon, we expect those things to happen. We know they are and there are going to be deaths. There always is. People still go up there, some less trained, some more. It's the way it goes on Mt. Hood and in Oregon.
People are not going to get "wrung out" over well trained climbers. They might get wrung out a bit over some school kids going up there and not having good enough equipment, guides and training -- but not over experienced climbers.
You need to live next to Mt. Hood and know people who have gone up there multiple times and been there when people have died and even when school kids have died. Then you would get a perspective on the mountain.
Regards,
Star Traveler
Perfect quote!!
I should chime in here. I have lived in Oregon and Washington, and climbed Mt. Hood from the easy side and spent some time winter camping and lived in a snow cave. I also spent the night shivering next to my dog because I miscalculated the sundown time and length of the loop I was on, on a fall run in the Pharoah Lakes wilderness of the Adirondack mountains of NY state behind Schroon Lake. No one knew I was missing so I did not unduely worry anyone, great.
First of all hiking at all times of year is dangerous although most people survive. The Adirondack mountains rangers post a sign that says, "Cotton Kills" which warns about the terrible insulating properties of wet cotton. Most deaths are in the spring and fall when the weather started out good but there was rain or wet snow. Weather changes and you better be prepared. Even for a day hike you should have raingear, polyester clothing, matches or other firestarter, a plastic sheet, flashlight, whistle and extra food and water. You should have a map and a compass and let people know your route. And if you are carrying a cell phone bring some extra batteries. This means a cord and an external battery pack. And realize that batteries and cold weather are not friends, Keep the batteries next to your warm skin. Do most people carry all this? No. Not even me and I know better. Well I do now.
Snow caves are warm, very warm. I have lived in two for 5 days and it can be howling wind and blizzarding outside and you will have no idea how bad it is. It is like living underground. I went winter camping in the Cascade mountains of Washington state and it was 25 below zero F, very cold and the first night I woke up in the tent and my eyes were frozen shut as the moisture had bounced off the mummy sleeping bag hood and froze my upper lashes to my lower lashes.
We made a quinsey, a snow cave you make by piling up snow and then digging it out, when we got to the location in the goat rocks wilderness we were staying at. The first one collapsed when we dug it out because the extreme cold was preventing the snow crystals from connecting. As it had taken four hours to construct we were quite mad and decide to just sleep in the tent. The sole woman on the trip was the coldest so she started to dig one herself. We calculated that it would take her 20 hours to pile up the snow. We helped her although we swore we would not make a second one. We had to let the second one set overnight after it started to collapse. Another night in the tent.
We were four and two dogs and it was warm in there with no extra heat. warm and quiet.
We had equipment for this trip and pulled a sled of 150 lbs, it took three people to do this and each had 50 lb packs.
we had 3 gallons of fuel. an alpine assault like the mt hood unfortunates is by necessity a light packing job. with very little margin of error.
we carved a very nice kitchen out of the collapsed snow cave
which was handy to have as the stoves were used a lot, melting snow for water. we had to melt a duffle bag full of snow every evening.
the bitter cold and exercise of skiing and pulling the packs and day trips would have us eating mad calories, cup of hot cocoa with a half a stick of butter starters, oatmeal with the other half of the stick for appetizer etc.... peanut butter is the best for protein and calories. did you know that at 20 below zero, the plastic one lb tub of almond butter freezes in a rock hard unuseable lump? neither did we. and we had many hilarious and dangerous minutes chipping small flakes off till we gave up.
the dogs needed extra calories too but we had not accounted for this when we packed the dog food so they were short every day as we did not want to run out. they supplemented their meals by eating our poop which they easily found in the three feet of snow. After we discovered this, by their bad breath, we stopped letting them lick our bowls and pots clean.
We could read inside the quinsey with no coats on or gloves on. It was about 40 degrees inside and 20 below outside. this was fairly tropical.
Take home message is that snowcaves are a whole different world inside, of course it would be nice to have adequate food.
Mount Hood is a great climb, easy, from the Timberline lodge side, a trudge up a big snowy ski slope with a small crevasse at the top. The altitude makes your heart go pitter pat. And I was in great shape. Even I had to rest and breathe 5 or times times per step.
The sun was bright and if you did not have sunscreen you could be fried. one guy missed a spot on his forehead and wore the red stripe for weeks.
If you are a mouth breather you can sunburn the roof of your mouth if the sun reflects off the snow just right.
We rested on some rocks near the top, kept open by the heat from the volcanic vent at the top, the sulphur smell was nasty. Then up a short snow chute. The slope that the chute is in is curved in a parabola and the sun reflected just perfectly on us, it was about 95 degrees F, we felt like we were in a solar oven, and we were. We stripped down to our bare skin, tops only. and walked up the final 50 yards.
Once at the top we redressed and after taking in the view peered over the steep slope of the north face. It steep and you would not want to fall down that slope. or... climb up it, unless you knew what you were doing.
Our guide told us about the slight pitch to the west as we descended. we could see the lodge at all times. When the cloulds rolled in, unexpectedly, as it was clear for hours The guide has us put away our compasses and navigate by feel. When the clouds rolled away we were all going in the wrong direction although we were sure we were headed directly for the lodge.
This is how another group got lost and spent and week or so in the snow, some died. No compasses and no planning.
Experienced people tell you that the park service may charge you for rescue so be sure to buy a FISHING LICENSE before you climb. Why? Because when you hold a license to fish or hunt in Oregon or Washington you have contributed to a fund to rescue you if you need it. A fishing license is the cheapest option and you don't even need a fishing rod.
As to the ethics of rescuing people... I leave that to others. Although I would like to be rescued if I do something stupid or have an accident be it on Mt Hood or in a car.
My buddy who worked for Outward Bound and NOLS, National Outdoor Leadership Schools said that in Africa the natives had a phrase for the white westerners who came to hike and climb in dangerous locations.
It translated loosely as, "People with luggage looking for troubles."
Cheers, have fun outdoors and stay safe.
Now nobody lift a finger when he has a heart attack.
In the meantime, climbing mountains is a fair weather sport and exposure will kill you. So go find and help those caught out in it.
*grin*
Happy to do it...
Irresponsible, last century's tools. Not enough. They now recommend Personal Location Beacons.
http://www.safetyandsecuritycenter.com/emgpspelobe.html
You said -- "They would have never gotten Oregonized..."
Now, what did you mean by that...? :-)
I've been down to Lewis and Clark's camp several times. It's an interesting spot. They tried Washington (north side of the Columbia) and didn't like it, so came over to Oregon. It was much nicer there. They said the Indians over on the Washington side were unreasonable in their bargaining, so that was another reason. The Indians on the Oregon side were much nicer.
Thanks to Lewis and Clark, we opened up Oregon Territory and ended up having the largest unforced migragation in modern human history (i.e., the Oregon Trail).
Regards,
Star Traveler
It's a pun...
Umm Dude, your funeral doesn't get paid for no matter what you die of unless it is being at war.
All the world is a general, everyone thinks that everybody who does naything has to get their personal approval and support. Why should anyone care if you support them or not.
BTW I don't support those who eat transfats, drink more than two drinks a day, smoke, drive pickups on the road that scare me, wear overly tight jeans.
Do they care? NO! These guys on the mountain don't care what us landlubbers think, they are on their own quest. And I suspect that if govt paid for nothing, rescuing would be going on.
But who expects others to get their personal approval for their adventures? I mean, really, think of the damned red tape.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.