Posted on 12/17/2006 5:20:45 AM PST by Nasty McPhilthy
A trio of climbers, ascended Mount Hood, under adverse winter conditions — to test their survival skills. The intrepid climbers took gear such as food, fuel, bivvy sacks, a shovel and ropes. These men knew they were taking a big risk – or they would not have taken survival gear with them.
Mountain climbing is a sport for the wealthy who can afford to take weeks off from work to indulge in their expensive hobby.
These clowns have been missing for over a week, and the state is expending tens of thousands of dollars in search and resuce operations.
Why is the sheriff’s department and the U.S Forest Service rangers looking for these men who are addicted to danger?
The taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for the foolhardy thrill seekers who knew they were taking a big risk. The families of the climbers should pay for their own search teams; they shouldn’t expect the government to pay for the reckless chance the climbers took.
From USA Today:
“Deputy Gerry Tiffany, spokesman for the Hood River County sheriff’s office, said its office does not charge for its searches.”
I think it’s about time the government starts charging for rescue operations – when it’s a case of adventurers who place themselves in danger.
I’m sick of hearing about the missing climbers; I’m sick of watching the relatives of the missing men on TV praise the courage of the climbers, and I’m sick at the thought that taxpayers are paying for the rescue efforts.
"Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash. "
"Airplane" 1980
Sure it is. That is why they left their intentions with the Ranger's office, wore warm, layered clothes, took bivy sacks and extra rations, etc.
And one other thing - skydiving, sail planing, SCUBA diving, all fun and risky at the same time. But if you screw the pooch doing these things, you don't put others at risk to save your dumb a$$.
Really? Ever been to a DZ? I was at Deland, Florida back in the early '80s, witnessed a malfunction and subsequent "bounce". This girl endangered everyone in the vicinity because she improperly packed her main and reserve. A buddy of mine is a PADA Certified Cave Rescue Diver. He takes untold risk every time he has to pull someone out of an underwater cave (for free). Sail Planes? I ran a glider tow operation until 11/05. If the pilot of a glider on tow snatches back hard on the stick the towpilot is likely dead. But, then again, that is why we have releases on both ends. Calculating the risks and preparing yourself accordingly.
It is all calculated risk. Granted, there are some dumb asses out there who've watched Jackass too many times and get themselves into trouble. I call that natural selection. Never underestimate the stupid, though. But, that is just as true in the jury room as it is on the slopes of Mt. Hood.
If I were a betting man, barring being killed in an avalanche, I'd bet they'll be found alive and well because they calculated the risks and were well prepared for those risks by all accounts I've heard.
Well, fellow "tax payer", we all pay for a lot in life that is due to other people's actions. Once we start down the road of "making people pay", it is going to get ugly.
I am assuming you are the perfect weight, have no vices that will cost fellow insurees, drive the perfect speed in the absolutely safest car available, and are without risk. You of course will never burden your "fellow taxpayers" by making a goof, doing an unwise thing, having an accident that is "your own fault".
We will of course if you goof bail you out but will demand that you pay by becoming bankrupt. And labeling what you do in the most judging tones.
I don't think this was a daredevil thrill trip,,these guys are sportsmen, preparing to do something that demands a great deal of preparation and aren't having a thrill if you ask me.
You said -- "We are talking about adventurist that did a stupid thing."
Actually, people in Oregon, according to what I've seen and heard and talked about, don't consider climbing Mt. Hood a stupid thing -- not even in the winter.
Being unprepared to do it, according to the season and the conditions would be stupid. But, these guys look like they were prepared and very well trained. So, the people in Oregon would not hold it against them. We know how the weather can change on a dime.
And a majority of those rescuers are out there, *themselves* doing the very same things, enjoying the outdoors in Oregon. So, I don't think that sentiment goes very far in Oregon (although it may in the sheltered "big city").
Regards,
Star Traveler
This would be easy to rectify. Just as it takes proof of insurance to drive a car they could require the same for mountain climbing.
No card, no climb.
I think this is what this thread is basically about, not hate or economics, but this: How do we respond to people who want to engage in ultimately self-centered activities which may cost their neighbors and community, without offering those neighbors and community even the potential of any reward in return?
It is clear that these guys were not setting out on a Sunday afternoon hike, as described by startraveller. They were deliberate in seeking to go in harm's way for purely self-centered reasons. We as a culture tend to applaud explorers and risk takers and as Americans that is as it should be. But somehow when the risktakers implicitly rely on the community at large to rescue them from the risks they take, when the odds turn out against them, that takes the air out of the balloon.
I support doing whatever it takes to rescue these guys, out of common humanity. And I would support them paying the extraordinary expense they have cost the community in their self-aggrandizing pursuits. And I agree the heroes are the rescue people who risk their lives in virtuous, dangerous service, rather than the schlubs who screwed up.
Why these guys took this risk is beyond belief. They fly in from Dallas and then ignore a huge storm coming their way and decide to make a quick trip. This defies all sensibilities and now we have to pay millions to go find them/bodies.
Most likely they had this trip scheduled for months and were not going to let the weather, no matter how bad stop them. Foolhardy way to die.
Pray for W and Our Troops
You said -- "No card, no climb."
I'm sure that idea would go *nowhere* in Oregon. Wouldn't fly... [not for the beloved Mt. Hood, or for that matter the rest of the Cascade Range]
Regards,
Star Traveler
Some states and I also think the National Park Service do in fact bill these nut jobs for the search and rescue efforts.
Look, "because its there" is fine. It is the deliberate decision to do the climb in December that I take issue with.
Why not climb Mt. Hood in June? I did a lot of hiking and some climbing in the CA Sierra's, Canyonlands, Yosemite, etc. when I was a tenager/20 something. But not in winter.
Winters were saved for racing motorcycles in the Mojave/Western AZ desert. ;-)
It is only human to feel sorry for their loved ones. However it is very hard to feel sorry for those who DELIBERATELY enter a winter storm on a mountain for kicks and giggles.
Mountain climbers should post a bond before leaving. If they get back safely, they get their money. If a rescue team is needed, their money is used.
I think the guy needs to get his fat ass out from in front of the TV and get a life.
First off I do not know the individuals involved, and I don't think you do either, so saying they willingly put themselves in a dangerous situation shouldn't be part of this conversation.
You seam to be saying that some lives are less worthy of saving than others. BS. I do SAR work for a living. So do most of my friends. You might feel it is your job to place judgment on others for their actions, I don't. My job is to pull them out, not to play God.
You said -- "Why these guys took this risk is beyond belief. They fly in from Dallas and then ignore a huge storm coming their way and decide to make a quick trip. This defies all sensibilities and now we have to pay millions to go find them/bodies."
You ought to know that there are storms all winter long in Oregon, especially with the "Pineapple Express". It's nothing new. You get in and get out and do so between storms. Sometimes they come faster, sometimes slower. Sometimes they're worse than was counted on, sometimes they slink away. You never really know for sure.
I've been up on Mt. Hood and the weather can change in hours and you don't know it. Climbers do their best estimates and go for it when they see an opening. That's the way it works. Now, if they get caught because the weather was nastier and worse than counted on, that's just what happens.
No one is going to give up climbing Mt. Hood because of this. It will still go on as it has been going on since the late 1800s in Oregon.
You also said -- "Most likely they had this trip scheduled for months and were not going to let the weather, no matter how bad stop them. Foolhardy way to die. "
What's a foolhardy way to die? Climbing mountains, or coming to Oregon, or climbing Mt. Hood, or doing it in the winter, or living in Dallas?
Some people might think living in Oregon is a foolhardy way to die, being that people get killed out here for walking on trails or walking at the beach or going in fishing boats.
Regards,
Star Traveler
This is the first I've read about them "deliberately entering a winter storm for kicks and giggles". The accounts I've read have them attempting the climb in good weather conditions, one of the three injuring himself and thus delaying the descent, and a storm coming up earlier then expected. Can you provide a link that details this "deliberate" bit?
The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down in the arena are the doers. They make mistakes because they try many things. The person who makes no mistakes lacks boldness and the spirit of adventure. He is the one who never tries anything. His is the brake on the wheel of progress. And yet it cannot be truly said he makes no mistakes, because his biggest mistake is the very fact that he tries nothing, does nothing, except criticize those who do things.
You said -- "Mountain climbers should post a bond before leaving. If they get back safely, they get their money. If a rescue team is needed, their money is used."
If you did that for Mt. Hood, you would have half the state of Oregon screaming bloody murder. People would come out of the woodwork to oppose that. I doubt if you could get a $25 bond for climbing Mt. Hood.
Regards,
Star Traveler
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