“Illegals” hysteria & the place I can’t go

I had doctor’s appointments most of the day, and while I was in the car I kept switching around on the radio. I pulled up Rush and couldn’t listen more than a few minutes. What I heard was a disappointing, strange, paranoia-feeding rant on how the “moderate Republicans and Democrats in the Senate” have a deliberate plan afoot to “enlarge the number of victims and people who will need welfare services” so as to “enlarge government…”

It’s all a plot and a conspiracy, you see…nothing could possibly simply be about stupid and lackluster career politicians trying to finally, finally, finally do something about an issue no one has wanted to touch for 30 years and doing it haphazardly, fearfully and imperfectly, and with the usual suspects trying to add their own flourishes, which must always be batted down, whether the issue is illegal immigration or almost anything else.

No, no. It’s a plot! It’s a conspiracy, meant to bring down America and put the conservatives in their place! To create a permanent underclass! To enlarge government, create more victims and raise our taxes! (what nonsense…we’re in a freaking war and spending more than ever, yet our revenues are growing thanks to the tax cuts…it’s funny how, when it suits a need, suddenly taxes will have to be raised…)

Maybe I should launch a conspiracy theory of my own…say…oh, something silly, like maybe this hysteria is just the conservatives doing everything they can to foment enough discord and discontent to create the “demand” for a third party candidate.

Which worked out so well for all of us in 1992. Hey, one conspiracy theory is as good as the next, isn’t it?

Now, I grant you, some of what is in this Senate immigration bill is objectionable and must be striken - it makes no sense at all for illegals to have better job-protection and benefits than American citizens. Social Security entitlements? I don’t think so. The idea of giving Mexico veto power over a fence or barrier idea is ludicrous.

But…for heaven’s sake, the thing is going to go to Congress, it’s going to get cleaned up and turned around - what has come out of the senate will not be the thing that (assuming anything actually gets passed) will be passed. There is some evidence that something workable may actually emerge from all of this ‘initial’ hoo-ha.

I know there are different opinions on the issue of these illegals, and everyone, on every side, “has a point” but I was extremely disheartened by what I heard on the radio, and by some of what I am seeing in blogs and in my email. I had to turn Rush off - there was something so insideous about the “ship them all back,” rhetoric flying between him and his callers that it was making my flesh feel crawly. “Round them up and ship them back, devote a whole law-enforcement team to it, we can get rid of all of them in 7 years, Rush!” Stunning. Appalling. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

Aside from the legal and moral ramifications of trying to “round them all up -” I got out of the car thinking, are they forgetting that we are talking about human beings, here? Many of whom have been here for years, initially through legal means, and who have created lives? People with lives and families who - like how they got here or not - are HERE and are mostly contributing to society in positive ways? Honestly, the folks on the radio sounded extremely narrow and over-the-top. The humanity of the illegals seemed as unmentionable to them as the humanity of a baby-in-utero is to a feminist.

And funnily enough, I didn’t hear anyone complaining about the annual influx of illegal Irish immigrants who come in via Montauk and stay. But they’re charmers, aren’t they? Good senses of humor, they work and they don’t ever cause trouble…right?

Build a wall, by all means. Make sure you build it deep, so tunneling is difficult. Arm it and stand guards. I’m all for it. But this overheated rhetoric, this astonishing willingness by too many to keep blowing on the flames until something erupts…this is not good.

I cannot buy into this idea that suddenly America will be overthrown unless 11-12 million illegals are “shipped out, no matter what the story is…” I also cannot buy into the idea that there is a conspiracy afoot to create a socialist state, anymore than I buy the idea that this brouhaha is a conspiracy on the right to form a third party. But what do I know? Maybe everything is a grand conspiracy, after all. In which case, everyone is working at cross-purposes and all of this sound and fury may signify nothing…

I also believe that Hispanics are the upcoming huge voter bloc in this nation, and that most of them (not the A.N.S.W.E.R. rowdies or the useful idiots who exist in EVERY ethnic group) are fairly conservative types of folks, and the conservatives are doing all they can to convince the Hispanics that they will never be welcome in the GOP. I have emails from Hispanics who have worked on GOP campaigns and contributed to GOP causes and who are dazed and feeling very much like they are not welcome. One fellow - Mexican/German - of immigrant parents, has gone from supporting the initial idea that immigrants should be encouraged to come here legally to deciding that the conservative tone has crossed a line where he cannot follow.

I am concerned about people running so hot on this issue - with the heat being enhanced by the bellows blowing on it via talk radio and some blogs - I am concerned that someone is going to get hurt. I’m concerned that people are losing their heads over this.

“Oh, Anchoress, the whole nation is going to be hurt if we don’t ship them all back and seal the borders and blah, blah, blah…”

Are we? I have a plumber friend who owns his own business, and he can’t find young white or black men to come learn the trade under him. “The black kids all want to be rappers and athletes, and the white kids think the sweat is beneath them. The Asian kids are all going to college to become doctors.” But the Hispanic kids want to learn. They want to work and support themselves, they want to learn the language so they can enter the marketplace. I hear a lot of sneering about the “jobs Americans don’t want to do” line…but the truth is, while the line may be just a line…it has some (limited) basis in fact.

70 or 80 years ago, my own ancestors were coming in, legally, and learned to hang drywall and fix automobiles and fight fires. Yes, they were legal…the nation had well-run, functional programs to handle a huge influx. Had such a program not been in place, they would have come, anyway…and they would have been illegal!

I wonder why it is that we do not, today have a well-run, functional immigration program to handle the huge influx of people who wish to live here. Why aren’t we WORKING on creating such a program? Why isn’t that part of any immigration bill - the reform of the INS?

We’re going to need our immigrants as the boomers retire and weigh heavy on our SocSec system and their children barely reproduce at replacement levels. Why can’t we bring back the idea of Ellis Island - create an Ellis Island West, so to speak which would prevent the “illegality” of our immigrants.

That might be helpful, you know? Make ‘em legal, get ‘em paying taxes…Sure, some people called my grandfather a “filthy wop” and my other grandfather a “lazy mick” and they bitched because the carousel at Coney Island suddenly played Italian hurdy-gurdy instead of genteel songs from the gay 90’s, but everyone adjusted. The nation grew stronger.

Alexandra has a good post up on the issue, and she ends by linking to this very interesting partial transcript of an interview between Rush and Tony Snow.

Funny thing about this interview…I saw it linked to yesterday at another right-wing blog, but when I went back to access it, the link had - for unexplained reasons - been taken down. Once I finally got a chance to listen to it, (thanks to a pal) my sense was that Rush was not convincing in his arguments and he knew it. He sounded tentative and uneasy the whole time, and I came away thinking Snow got the better him and had been entirely too convincing for Rush’s liking. And I am not a Rush-hater by any means. I’ve often admired his skill and enjoyed his humor…but lately…

The right has a disproportionate number of Christians in its tent, and Christians are supposed to know a thing or two about forgiveness and second-chances. By the light of Christ, a whore is not forever a whore and a thief is not forever a thief. Are we conservative Christians going to forget our own second chances - some of them known only to God and ourselves - and declare that while we might not always be wretches, “an illegal is always an illegal and there is no mercy, no chance to be something more…”

I can’t believe that. Can’t accept it. Won’t be part of it. Our Lord demands more from us than a shrill dehumanization of what He has created, some demagoguery and a quick look-away as we shout, “ship ‘em back! Bad! All Bad!”

Maybe the answer is something I’ve been thinking about for a little while - a sort of registry in which a “guest-worker” who has been here for a while and has demonstrated his peaceable intentions would register and pay a recurring fee (not a tax, which would give rise to demands for representation and votes, but a fee - a usable source of revenue for the local government) and in exchange have the “right” to work without being harassed or having to look over his shoulder all the time. Perhaps these registration centers would offer classes in English for nominal fees, to help them in their assimilation. Such a registry might even be able to eventually offer affordable group health insurance to take some of the burden off of the hospitals (and the rest of us). Okay, maybe it’s a stupid or naive idea. I never said I was brill. That’s why I’m not a community leader. But someone, somewhere has an idea that will work.

I seem to be losing friends over this issue which is not my choice - but there you go. I cannot get on the train with the people who are spitting mad and convinced that the nation is utterly doomed, and will die quickly unless their EXACT RECIPE is followed. There is just something really wrong with that - with the whole mindset. And there is an undercurrent of something - not among the friends I am losing so much as in the blogs and on the radio - I can’t put my finger on, but I don’t like it. I can’t embrace it.

If your convictions demand that you no longer read me, that you de-link me, that you consider me unfit to be a friend, a conservative, a woman, a Christian, or whatever…well…I’m sorry to hear that, but so be it. I agree with some of what you say, I support some of the measures you propose…but I cannot go where you want me to go, and I cannot fume and boil and roil and churn as you clearly wish I would. And I cannot embrace the hate - yes, real hate - that I am seeing roll off some of you like fog off the sea. Nothing good ever comes from embracing the hate.

If those arrogant pieces of bull crap we call Senators allowed an abomination like THAT to get through, we are supposed to trust them to do this correctly?

Bingo!

If Rush sounds a bit angry over this it's probably because like the rest of the true Conservatives I know, he is heartily sick and tired of having supported the Republicans for the last six years they have been in power, only to have a treasonous knife this despicable shoved between his shoulder blades.

Because this bill is despicable, and support for it borders on treason. That's the only conclusion that anyone who has read the particulars of the thing can draw.

Catholicfreeper, if you haven't already, you really need to read the speech Senator Jeff Sessions made to the Senate before the vote. In it he outlined some of the worst provisions of the bill, but not all, given it's 600+ page length, there is sure to be a number of other bombs in there.

So now it goes to the U.S. House of Representatives. Hopefully, and this is a shaky hope, they will hold the line and put a wooden stake through the heart of this thing. If they do, I will praise once again the wisdom of the founding fathers of this great Republic. But if they fail, it is certain that the United States of 2026 will bare no resemblance to the United States of today.

I can't express the level of disgust I have for the GOP Senators who voted for this thing. It's causing me to wonder if everything the Democrats have always alleged about the Republican Party being the tool of the rich, landed fat-cats isn't true after all.

I may have cast my last ballot for a Republican candidate. The Constitution Party seems to be my ethical home, and maybe it's time I made the switch official.

Well, I agree with on Mccain Feingold. I have told my Congressmen as well my State Reps to please do not vote for anything because you think all the "bad stuff" will get thrown out by a Court. I guess in the end, I think much of this problem will be sorted out by the time the folks that are able to qualify for these programs(guestworker, citizenship etc) are actually calculated. In the end, I think the number is going to be quite lower than expected. I do think the major problem with this guest worker program is that it needs to be smaller and reviewed on a some sort of Quarterly basis so it can be adjusted for economic conditions.

The biggest argument I think the anti Senate bill people have is this. The current bill after its combined with elements of the House bill is not the problem. Its when future Sessions of Congress and future Presidents start messing around with it. I think thats what happen to the infamous 'Reagan Amnesty"

"I may have cast my last ballot for a Republican candidate."

I hope NOT. A GOP House will probably block it ... this session. A Democrat House next session will likely pass a bill this bad, or worse. A weak showing in November for the GOP will be interpreted by the media as "proof" that the countrywants what the Democrats are voting for -amnesty.

So, at least continue to vote for those Republicans that are true conservatives, please. If you can defeat a RINO out there, go for it.

What kind of plea deal allows you to keep your ill-gotten gains and then rewards you for accepting it?

Maybe its a Catholic thing that I just can't understand. But there seems to be a whole lot of Catholics in FR who reflexively want us to just roll over on this one and let Ted Kennedy and McCain tell us what is right and wrong. I really need some Catholics here to explain this to me. Is it just because virtually all of these illegals are Mexicans and Mexicans are virtually all Catholics? That doesn't sound rational to me but I can't come up with a good reason.

If the people who are upset by the level of discourse (like this twit who was crying on the phone with Hannity today) or upset by the 'name calling' and 'hysteria' and bothered by those of us who keep using the word AMNESTY can explain to me which piece of legislation that either John McCain or Ted Kennedy has ever authored which was NOT a threat to our democracy, I will be glad to calm down. Until then, I find it incredibly questionable to have my motives called into question for opposing people who routinely seek to destroy the GOP and conservatives.

Your Church absolves your sins after confessing and making penance. The Senate isn't even asking THAT! And if your sin was breaking into the cathedral and stealing the charity money, don't you think your priest would ask for you to return the money in addition to your penance? Or would a few Hail Mary's be acceptable in lieu of the money for the poor?

There are lots of ways to offer amnesty. One is to ask people to fill out paperwork for it and pay for the paperwork. Don't you think the drug dealers, child molesters, tax cheats, mob bosses and pimps would love to get the deal that these illegals are getting and clean their slate for a couple of thousand dollars?

Another thing that really pisses me off is the characterization of people who are against unlimited illegal immigration as being racist/bigoted/nativist/insertyourfavorite-ist here or whatever.

I am a firm believer in immigration. Not the type of immigration in the 1965 bill that completely squashed the immigration of skilled workers in favor of unskilled poverty stricken immigrants. I favor immigration that brings people to our country that are going to contribute to society and enter the country to become Americans. These people are what have made our country great since our founding. When I hear that someone has become a legal American Citzen, I seek them out to shake their hand and say welcome.

But when these people get here, they have a different idea. And don't think that image of that bloodthirsty son of a b*tch Che Guevara is meaningless. It speaks volumes about the people who are supporting this mass influx into our country as THEIR RIGHT.

WOW. I am glad I read your comments before I wasted my remarks disagreeing with "The Anchoress."

I'm Catholic and I know that Cardinal Mahoney is a malicious advocate who supports the illegal invasion, and I know of maybe two Catholic posters who favor McCain/Kennedy, but I deplore their bill, and the senate's bill as well.

I have contacted over 100 GOP House members via e-mail and the House must hold strong!

POTUS is dead wrong on this issue and his guest worker plan is filled with loop holes and it's so convoluted to make it impossible to enforce.

Build the fence, put troops on the border, do all the high tech things and FGS, FIRST stop them from invading our country.

Read your bible a little more closely. It was God that established nations, borders, and put rulers over them. It began at the Tower of Bible when God determined that it is not in mans best interest to come under a one world dictator.

God created nations, peoples, and languages, some to bless because of their relationship to Him, some to punish for their lack of relationship to Him. A nation is not a nation when it has no borders, and that is the aim of globalists like Bush and his ilk when they talk about border less trade zones.

It's very hard for me not to become exasperated with people who replace scriptures with some sweet enough to give me a toothache, unstudied, pipe dreams of strawberry fields forever.

Globalism seems like a great idea to it's designers and adherents, but the Bible says, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but whose end is destruction". Globalism is just such a "seems right to a man", example of what is described in this passage. And it will end in destruction, unintended, perhaps, but also unavoidable.

The OP is load of malarkey, and should be rebutted on that basis. The REALITY is that our government is showing it intends to make 12-20 million people illegally here citizens. That will change the political dynamic greatly.

Some of us want to hold the line and put a stop to this.

The personal attacks on the OP are annoying, though. Standing up like a pod person, pointing, and yelling TROLL do not make one look wise or noble. IMHO, that's more annoying than dealing with a troll, or one who might be one.

Well let me say something about the Catholic issue. I assume most are Catholics but maybe not as many as people think. Regardless of the initial faith numbers, the fact that they will migrate to the USA increases the chance that many of them will not remain Catholic unfortunately from my view. The biggest rise in Pentecostal and Evangelical churches have been from migrants and others coming up North. I believe that is one reason why the Southern Baptist Church has indicated that a tough Senate bill would be acceptable. Its not politics but just having more experience in ministering to this group.

I guess one reason some conservative Catholics have taken a view that is close to the President's on this is varied. There is an underlying Theology all inter-playing here. The dignity of the human person, the Theology relating to the Alien etc. Lump this with Catholic's involvement in the pro life movement and its various aspects and it gets complicated.
Also, there is an issue of culpribilty. The illegal Alien that broke the law versus the Society that for 30 years decided to nothing about it and in fact perhaps encouraged it. So I guess there is a Catholic view of justice happening here and proper punishment.
I guess my bright line that I feel I can't cross is making no exceptions or provisions for those that have kids here or American spouses. The morality questions regarding that become troublesome for me. However, I am pretty open to many other things.

Why do I do not view this as Amnesty? Well, they do have to admit guilt. They have to pay fines, taxes etc. They have to keep their nose clean for a period of time. I have heard 11 years in some proposals before they can even apply to be citizens. I really don't care if people want to add more provisions. 1000 hours of community service? I just have to think there is a middle ground less than they having to leave and wait 20 years to get back in and anything short of that is Amnesty. Again, the family issue is what probally drives me most as to this issue.

But dont you think that there is hope that many of these nonsense provisions(SS Security for one) will be knocked out. I just think that any compromise bill would have to be very tough and would not have many false illusions of enforcement. I can't imagine the House voting on anything that was just a facade as to their biggest concerns. I also think that many in the Senate are expecting that.

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