Posted on 04/30/2006 8:33:42 AM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite
Provisionals linked to expulsion of family at centre of row after killing
The Provisional IRA has been linked to the forcing out of a family at the centre of a dispute in west Belfast following the murder of Gerard Devlin.
However, the latest assessment by the IMC said the organisation had not sanctioned the use of violence in relation to the expulsion.
Mr Devlin (39), a father-of-six, was stabbed to death on February 3 in Ballymurphy. His killing sparked a wave of attacks.
The IMC said that after the murder the IRA "sought to defuse tensions and that despite popular pressure it declined to take violent action".
"We think nevertheless that PIRA did seek to secure the departure from the area of one of the families involved in the dispute but did not sanction the use of violence," it said.
"We also believe that in a separate incident PIRA itself may have been associated with the forced departure of somebody from the area where he lived."
As billed days before publication the assessment of the IRA covering three months, from December to February, was highly positive.
The commission concluded that while some senior IRA men were still involved in organised crime, the leadership had sanctioned no paramilitary or other violent activity.
In the last three months there has been no indication of training, engineering activity, recruitment or targeting, nor has the organisation carried out any so-called 'punishment' shootings or beatings.
The IMC said it had information on instances of IRA members being involved in assaults and other violence, largely arising from personal or community disputes, but there was "nothing to suggest" that these individuals were acting under the orders of the organisation.
"There has now been a substantial erosion of PIRA's capacity to return to a military campaign without a significant period of build-up, which in any event we do not believe they have any intentions of doing," the IMC said.
The commission has previously blamed the IRA for continuing to gather intelligence but this is no longer the case.
"Though PIRA has access to people in positions in public and private organisations who could provide them with sensitive information on individuals which might be of use to them, we have no indication that people are currently being tasked to supply such information," it said.
The IMC said there were signs that the IRA continued to stop members engaging in criminal activity.
It noted that members had been told not to attend February's Love Ulster march in Dublin which erupted in violence.
Republicans previously engaged in illegal fundraising had been ordered to desist, the commission said.
However, the IMC said it believed some Provisionals, including "senior ones", were still involved in crime such as fuel laundering, money laundering, extortion and smuggling.
The three-member commission said it still held the "absolutely clear view that the Provisional IRA (PIRA) leadership has committed itself to following a peaceful path".
The IMC also praised Sinn Féin, saying it had seen "further evidence" of positive leadership.
The report referred to the retention of some IRA weapons following last autumn's decommissioning.
It said the IRA had claimed only to have destroyed all the arms "under its control" and that any kept by local units had been retained without the order of the leadership.
The commission said the unsurrendered weaponry was "not significant" compared to what had been decommissioned.
The IMC mentioned the murder of former Sinn Féin official and self-confessed British agent Denis Donaldson in Co Donegal earlier this month. The killing was not covered in this report but will be in the next.
On the dissident front, both the Continuity IRA and Real IRA remain a threat.
CIRA is the most active of the dissident groups. It continues to recruit and was behind a number of attacks during the period covered.
The IMC said it did not believe CIRA had been involved in rioting at the Love Ulster March.
The commission's assessment of the RIRA remains the same – that it has been responsible for violence including shootings and remains involved in other serious crime including a kidnapping and robbery in Derry which netted £30,000.
The IMC said that despite infighting within the RIRA's two factions, the organisation's "aspirations and readiness to use extreme violence are undiminished".
The status of the INLA remains largely unchanged. It continues to be linked to organised crime including drugs.
The IMC said it believed the group had carried out assaults.
The commission also said the INLA was linked with ordering a suspected burglar to leave Strabane, Co Tyrone, and was involved in robberies including one in Sion Mills and another at the Ulster Bank in north Belfast in February during which a woman and a one-year-old child were held hostage.
April 28, 2006
So there. I condemn the violence of the IRA and I condemn the tactics of the British Government. I'm an equal opportunity condemner.
You are making a moral equivalent of a democracy like Britain, with terrorist group like the IRA - that's what the left do.
BTW, why don't the Brits just get the hell out of Ireland and let them run their own country? It's not like the Irish are English or anything.
Because the majority of people in Northern Ireland don't want to be part of the Republic, and attempting to unite the island under one government would lead to a civil war.
In any case, where is it written in stone that the island Ireland must be united under one sovereign government? Such a claim would not stand up in any court!
So they just asked politely? Maybe brought them flowers and candy?
Why don't I buy that for a moment?
I can't speak for Colosis, but personally speaking I would use whatever means nessecary to crush the IRA.
Smarmy freaking Brits trying to lecture us on human rights....makes me bloody sick it does.
Could you clarify? If you mean the British left lecturing you, well - there are left wingers everywhere doing that, no point blaming Britian.
So because people in 8 Counties want to basically secede from Ireland they should be allowed to do so. Some of our Southern States tried that about 140 years ago. It didn't work out well for them. You should read up on it.
"You are making a moral equivalent of a democracy like Britain, with terrorist group like the IRA.."
The Brits are the ones who conquered Ireland by force of arms. The Irish fought long and hard to preserve their independence. I think the Brits are the ones who are on the 'wrong side' here. But that's not suprising. Britain didn't really cotton to that whole 'countries should be free and independent' thingy until they got their asses whipped in a couple of wars.
attempting to unite the island under one government would lead to a civil war.
That's a pretty low opinion you've got of the Irish there. I don't think the Irish are too stupid or uncivilized to govern themselves peacefully. They seem to do alright in the other parts of Ireland which aren't occupied by British troops.
In any case, where is it written in stone that the island Ireland must be united under one sovereign government?
Where is it written in stone that Britain must be? See, that facetious argument cuts both ways. I mean I can understand Wales, that's actually attached to England proper, but Ireland's an island. Where the hell do the Brits get off saying 'we want that for ourselves and we'll send an Army to take it'. That sounds like something that Saddam tried with Kuwait.
Such a claim would not stand up in any court!
Maybe not in a British court, but I'll wager the folks at the Hague might feel a bit differently about it. Besides, why don't you put it to a vote in all of Ireland? Let's ask the whole country if they want 8 counties being run by the Brits when the entire rest of the land is run by Irish.
What's wrong with that?
Here's my solution. The IRA puts away their weapons and stops killing people. The Brits get on a boat and finally make Ireland a free and independent nation as they should be. Anyone in Ireland who prefers British Pariliamentary monarchy to Irish democracy can get on a boat and take the short hop across the channel to England.
Problem solved and noone else has to die.
L
Probably because there is a certain smell rising from that report!! ;)
I dunno, every political entity on these islands seems hell bent on appeasing the NI terrorists, particularly the IRA.
And so the mask drops off. Killing your own 'subjects'(once again, a disgusting word when applied to human beings) without charges or trial is just fine, eh? Like I said...smarmy frigging foreigners try to lecture my country on human rights. Try taking a look in the mirror.
Seems to me the Brits did more than their fair share of killing Irishmen when they counquered them. Oh and when they starved them during the Famines, and when they forcibly deported them to the 'colonies' telling them it was "so much more for their own good", especially the young Irish lasses. Thanks for the lasses btw, they've added immeasurably to our country. That whole selling them into indentured servitude was pretty crappy, though.
Maybe if the Brits hadn't conquered their country, starved their population, forced their people into indentured servitude, tried to wipe out the Catholic faith, and forcibly deported them by the thousands to the 'colonies' the Irish wouldn't hate them so much.
So tell me again how clean the hands of the Orange Irish and the Brits are. I could use a good chuckle.
L
That's six counties, and you've got that wrong - the IRA tried secede NI from the UK, it didn't work out for them
The Brits are the ones who conquered Ireland by force of arms. The Irish fought long and hard to preserve their independence. I think the Brits are the ones who are on the 'wrong side' here. But that's not suprising. Britain didn't really cotton to that whole 'countries should be free and independent' thingy until they got their asses whipped in a couple of wars.
How many hundreds of years ago was that??? Whereas the IRA are killing people today!! The IRA are on the wrong side here.
That's a pretty low opinion you've got of the Irish there. I don't think the Irish are too stupid or uncivilized to govern themselves peacefully. They seem to do alright in the other parts of Ireland which aren't occupied by British troops.
You are putting words into my mouth. BTW, for a start, I am Irish and Catholic - living in southern Ireland, I hardly have a low opinion of my own people!!
I was talking about the fact that Unionists in NI would resist unification by force if we tried to impose a 32 county republic upon them.
Where is it written in stone that Britain must be? See, that facetious argument cuts both ways. I mean I can understand Wales, that's actually attached to England proper, but Ireland's an island. Where the hell do the Brits get off saying 'we want that for ourselves and we'll send an Army to take it'. That sounds like something that Saddam tried with Kuwait.
My point is there is no inviolable rule that Ireland must be under one government - would the Manifest Destiny give you right to Canada?
It is up to the majority of the NI voters to decide the fate of NI - no one else, and seeing as the majority of NI is Unionist, we must respect their wishes.
Maybe not in a British court, but I'll wager the folks at the Hague might feel a bit differently about it. Besides, why don't you put it to a vote in all of Ireland? Let's ask the whole country if they want 8 counties being run by the Brits when the entire rest of the land is run by Irish.
What's wrong with that?
I'll tell you what wrong with that - NI is political entity, so any vote must be held within it's borders.
And as I said, the Unionists will resist any attempt to unite the island of Ireland!
Here's my solution. The IRA puts away their weapons and stops killing people. The Brits get on a boat and finally make Ireland a free and independent nation as they should be. Anyone in Ireland who prefers British Pariliamentary monarchy to Irish democracy can get on a boat and take the short hop across the channel to England.
Problem solved and noone else has to die.
So, you are advocating that a democracy like Britain surrenders to a terrorist group like the IRA??
And some chance the IRA gives up anything because it is being appeased left, right and center.
And I see you are basically advocating the ethnic cleansing of NI Protestants. Ship them away from their home in NI? That is ridiculous.
I have a better solution: wipe out the IRA and their Loyalist counterparts, while democrats in NI negotiate a settlement.
Kinda simple really - you support the willful murder of innocents of you don't. As for my 'mask slipping' there was never a mask in the first place. I want the shinners to die the same way I want the 'insurgents' in Iraq to die.
Thankfully, I can look in the mirror now, unlike when I was a provo apologist. I was where you are now - and saw the light.
Killing off our own subjects?? Colosis is, like myself, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland.
And what the hell is this about lecturing? You are lecturing us about our own country!!
As I said, I would use any means necessary to crush the IRA!!
Seems to me the Brits did more than their fair share of killing Irishmen when they counquered them. Oh and when they starved them during the Famines, and when they forcibly deported them to the 'colonies' telling them it was "so much more for their own good", especially the young Irish lasses. Thanks for the lasses btw, they've added immeasurably to our country. That whole selling them into indentured servitude was pretty crappy, though.
Oh, the Famine again - I wish people would stop using that tragedy as a political football.
In terms of actual murder on this island in the past 80 years - the IRA has by far committed the highest number of murders.
I don't see why you are bashing modern Britain for things it's ancestors did - I could bash America for what it did to the Indians, but I won't.
Maybe if the Brits hadn't conquered their country, starved their population, forced their people into indentured servitude, tried to wipe out the Catholic faith, and forcibly deported them by the thousands to the 'colonies' the Irish wouldn't hate them so much.
The word 'if' - engaging in hypothesis I see.
But, take it from two Irishmen here - the Irish don't actually hate the British - just the IRA and some 2nd and 3rd generation Americans that have some outdated and romantic view of Ireland!!
So tell me again how clean the hands of the Orange Irish and the Brits are. I could use a good chuckle.
You must love sneering at people who disagree with you.
Is that meant to be some kind of argument in defence of the IRA???
Well said! :)
Wow, talk about rigging the game. That little scheme would make a shady gambling den owner proud. Why not let the whole country vote? Isn't Ireland a Country?
You know our Southern States were political entities, too. They held a vote of their duly elected representatives and they decided to secede from the Union. We kicked the crap out of them in a war to convince them of the error of their ways.
Whereas the IRA are killing people today!!
The Brits practically made the killing of Irish a national sport for a while there. I disagree with the killing of civilians. That's a big no-no. But troops occupying a supposedly sovereign country is another matter entirely.
My point is there is no inviolable rule that Ireland must be under one government
Wow....just wow. So you are honestly trying to tell me that the Brits could split Ireland into a few more 'political entities' and it'd be alright with you? Why only two? Why not three, or four, or a dozen?
So, you are advocating that a democracy like Britain surrenders to a terrorist group like the IRA?
First off, Britain is not a Democracy. It's a Parliamentay Monarchy with a few of the trappings of Democracy. It's subjects (there's that disgusting word again) have no rights, only privileges granted by Parliament and the Crown.
Second, you've already admitted that you don't want anything like a National vote in a democratic manner on the future of those 6 Counties. The situation is analogous to the 6 counties around Detroit deciding they'd prefer to be Canadian, not the other way 'round.
It is up to the majority of the NI voters to decide the fate of NI - no one else
Are you guys a sovereign country or not? That's as ridiculous as us allowing the voters in 6 counties in northern Ohio to decide if they'd rather be Canadian.
I have a better solution: wipe out the IRA and their Loyalist counterparts,
I thought you guys abolished the Death penalty. Called it 'uncivilized' if I remember correctly. Surely you aren't advocating anything like using a foreign countries Army to kill political dissidents inside your own borders, are you?
I was talking about the fact that Unionists in NI would resist unification by force if we tried to impose a 32 county republic upon them.
I've seen no evidence of that. If you can give me some quotes of the IRA politicos saying they want the 6 counties to be a free and independent Nation I'll admit my mistake. But until you can do that I'll say you've made an unsubstantiated accusation which is wholly without merit.
And I see you are basically advocating the ethnic cleansing of NI Protestants
I said nothing of the kind. I said anyone who 'wants to' can leave. The only one talking about forcing anyone to do anything here is you. I want to see all of Ireland free and united. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Apparently you do, though I can't really fathom exactly why you don't want it.
How many hundreds of years ago was that???
Hundreds of years ago in my Country it was legal for one human being to own another. The passage of time didn't make that any more morally correct. So because the Brits have been basically violating Irish sovereignty for hundreds of years they should continue to do so? That's a pretty lame piece of logic if you ask me.
I still don't see what's wrong with a National vote on the subject. Ask everyone in Ireland if they'd like to be one free, democratic, and united country. I'll bet that one would win in a landslide. Sure there'd be some malcontents. We have them here, too. But you could deal with them through your legal system and you wouldn't have to fob the job off on an occupying foreign army to just kill the folks you don't like.
I've no love for the IRA. I think everyone should stop killing each other over there. I think the Brits should go back to England.
Like I said for the life of me I can't understand why someone who's Irish would want to see a foreign country occupying one single inch of your soil.
L
I saw that!!
There was another article by Jim Cusack how lefty Sinn Fein get their support from conservative Irish Americans in the US by playing down their left-wing beliefs. From what I see here, it doesn't surprise me!!
Are you equating the average Irishman with members of the IRA, Communist terror group?
And can you please explain to me why the IRA is providing training and weapons to Hamas in Israel and FARC in Colombia? What did the Colombians do to the Irish?
. I've already said a couple of times I condemn the murders of civilians, whoever does it.
I support a free and united Ireland. I have said a number of times here that I want the IRA to stop killing civilians. I want the Brits to pack up their little traveling violations of National sovereignty show and go home.
Why on Earth do you people support having a foreign army occupy a substantial portion of your supposedly sovereign country?
Why don't you want a simple national referendum on the subject?
I want the shinners to die the same way I want the 'insurgents' in Iraq to die.
There's a subtle yet important difference between the 'shinners' (never heard that one before but I assume it means IRA types) and the Iraqi insurgents. The IRA types are Irish citizens if I'm not mistaken. You're advocating killing them when your country, and Britain btw, have abolished the Death penalty.
All I can assume from your stated position is that you want a foreign army to occupy a portion of your country and kill the folks with whom you have a political disagreement.
That's a pretty underhanded way of dealing with the problem in my view. Why not just reinstate the Capital punishment for murder and terrorism? Then your own legal system could deal with it and the terrorists would end up just as dead. The difference is that it would actually be lawful.
Granted you'd have to do your own killing from now on, but I believe the Irish would warm up to it once you got started. It'll make you feel like a real Country, too.
There's nothing wrong with killing terrorists using your judicial system. We've done it before. We're getting ready to do it againt.
In my view there is something very, very wrong with fobbing the job off on a foreign army when you've got your own perfectly good police force, courts, and prisons. You guys aren't Iraq. You're Ireland for Gods sake.
Start acting like a real Nation, will you?
Have a vote for Petes sake. Tell the Brits 'thanks very, much mate. We'll take it from here.' and send them on their merry British way.
If the 'provos' or 'shinnees' or whatever you call them start murdering innocent people then catch them, indict them, try them, and then by God execute them. Real countries don't stand for that sort of foolishness and neither should you.
What's really disappointing is all the 'oh poor us' handwringing. You're better than that.
L
Sure, why don't you let Mexicans vote on the status of Texas?
The island of Ireland is a country, not a nation-state.
You know our Southern States were political entities, too. They held a vote of their duly elected representatives and they decided to secede from the Union. We kicked the crap out of them in a war to convince them of the error of their ways.
The southern states still are political entities within the US.
The Brits practically made the killing of Irish a national sport for a while there. I disagree with the killing of civilians. That's a big no-no. But troops occupying a supposedly sovereign country is another matter entirely.
The IRA have committed the bulk of atrocities on this island for the past 80 years.
Why should the troops withdraw when there is a terrorist threat??? By that reasoning, the US should withdraw troops from sovereign Iraq.
Wow....just wow. So you are honestly trying to tell me that the Brits could split Ireland into a few more 'political entities' and it'd be alright with you? Why only two? Why not three, or four, or a dozen?
What??? Partition was the only way that a good part of Ireland would be independent - you keep ignoring the fact that the Unionists do not wish to be a part of the Republic of Ireland.
First off, Britain is not a Democracy. It's a Parliamentay Monarchy with a few of the trappings of Democracy. It's subjects (there's that disgusting word again) have no rights, only privileges granted by Parliament and the Crown.
I see, you think Britain is not a free society, good rationale for justifying terrorism.
Second, you've already admitted that you don't want anything like a National vote in a democratic manner on the future of those 6 Counties. The situation is analogous to the 6 counties around Detroit deciding they'd prefer to be Canadian, not the other way 'round.
A vote must only occur within the borders of NI - it's a recognized entity, whether you agree with it or not.
Are you guys a sovereign country or not? That's as ridiculous as us allowing the voters in 6 counties in northern Ohio to decide if they'd rather be Canadian.
As I said, NI is a political entity, whether you like it or not.
I thought you guys abolished the Death penalty. Called it 'uncivilized' if I remember correctly. Surely you aren't advocating anything like using a foreign countries Army to kill political dissidents inside your own borders, are you?
The IRA are not political dissidents - they are terrorists - plain and simple, and the UK includes NI, like it or not!!!!
I've seen no evidence of that. If you can give me some quotes of the IRA politicos saying they want the 6 counties to be a free and independent Nation I'll admit my mistake. But until you can do that I'll say you've made an unsubstantiated accusation which is wholly without merit.
All you IRA supporters have the same broken record. It's common sense that trying to unite Ireland by force will cause upheaval.
Why are you interested in the opinions of a terrorist group like the IRA????
I said nothing of the kind. I said anyone who 'wants to' can leave. The only one talking about forcing anyone to do anything here is you. I want to see all of Ireland free and united. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Apparently you do, though I can't really fathom exactly why you don't want it.
You aren't giving them much choice, are you.
I don't really care for a united Ireland, - few Irish people do.
Hundreds of years ago in my Country it was legal for one human being to own another. The passage of time didn't make that any more morally correct. So because the Brits have been basically violating Irish sovereignty for hundreds of years they should continue to do so? That's a pretty lame piece of logic if you ask me.
Ok, give America back to the Indians!!
I still don't see what's wrong with a National vote on the subject. Ask everyone in Ireland if they'd like to be one free, democratic, and united country. I'll bet that one would win in a landslide. Sure there'd be some malcontents. We have them here, too. But you could deal with them through your legal system and you wouldn't have to fob the job off on an occupying foreign army to just kill the folks you don't like.
I thought I explained this to you - NI is a political entity with the UK... jeez
What's so wrong with killing terrorists?
I've no love for the IRA. I think everyone should stop killing each other over there. I think the Brits should go back to England.
You are not acting like you have no love for the IRA.
The British will leave when the people of NI decide that is what they want, not a moment sooner.
Like I said for the life of me I can't understand why someone who's Irish would want to see a foreign country occupying one single inch of your soil.
It doesn't matter what you or I think - it's up to the people of NI, plain and simple.
It seems he is not able to conceive that fact!
What did the Colombians do to the Irish?
LOL!! That's a good one! :)
Lovely people they were. They liked to put bombs next to bus stops. They would place them in the 55 gallon drums that were used as trash barrels and set them to go off between six and seven pm. That way they could kill the maximum number of children who were taking the bus home from school.
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