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Good arguments. It's a shame nobody's listening in D.C.
1 posted on 04/10/2006 6:45:10 PM PDT by B-Chan
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To: B-Chan

Cut off welfare after six months and see how fast those paying jobs are taken by americans.


2 posted on 04/10/2006 6:48:31 PM PDT by blackdiamondracer
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To: B-Chan

Illegal immigrants do take jobs Americans don't want. Prostitute. Sweat shop worker. Labor for less than the going rate. No benefits, no taxes withheld. It would be more efficient to put the employers behind bars than to try to round up all the illegals.


5 posted on 04/10/2006 6:51:58 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: B-Chan

Ya know, my mother for years paid $60.00 to an illegal alien from Mexico to come and clean her house. She paid her in cash and the people who have house cleaning businesses who are legal Americans lose out on business. Not saying my mom was wrong cause I loved her housekeeper Maria, but this proves the point that Mexicans aren't taking jobs that Americans won't do,it is that Mexicans take less pay that legal American's can do.

It is time to seal the borders. America would be so much stronger if we would keep our borders closed to illegals!


6 posted on 04/10/2006 6:52:06 PM PDT by Halls (One Proud Texas Momma!!)
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To: B-Chan
With 5% unemployment as the Economic standard for "full employment" and the US Unemployment rate at 4.7% where do the replacement workers for the Illegals come from? Remember, that 5% includes the unemployable (handicaps, elderly and infirm) as well as the marginally employable (personality defects, drug abusers, the lazy, the criminal etc).

So just strictly on ECONOMICS, not who is right or who is wrong, where do we get the replacement workers to fill the Illegals jobs after they are deported?
7 posted on 04/10/2006 6:52:19 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: B-Chan
BTW, Mr. President, do you realize how arrogant and insulting you are being when you use the "Jobs Americans won't do" argument?

A. He has no clue - this is obvious B. He just doesn't care C. Both A & B

9 posted on 04/10/2006 6:53:14 PM PDT by WhiteGuy ("Every Generation needs a new revolution" - Jefferson)
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To: B-Chan

Another line that needs to stop, "we can't just deport all of the illegals, there are too many of them".

Bullshirt. Lets expand that line:

We can't arrest all the pot smokers, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the rapists, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the speeders, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the crack sellers, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the tax cheaters, there are too many of them.

I think you get my point.


10 posted on 04/10/2006 6:53:27 PM PDT by hophead ("Enjoy Every Sandwich")
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To: B-Chan

Maybe it's time for us to play the race card?

"Illgal aliens are taking away the jobs blacks used to do."

Gads, that's racist. I sound like a frigging democrat....


11 posted on 04/10/2006 6:54:25 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: B-Chan

I say we all go to Yuma and take McLame up on his offer for $50 an hour to pick lettuce!

I have worked construction in Tucson, Phoenix, Yuma, Bullhead City and Laughlin Nevada.. It's hot but I can do it, I was run out because of the illegals.


14 posted on 04/10/2006 6:56:30 PM PDT by The Mayor ( We are moving in on Albany! http://www.newyorkcoalition.org)
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To: B-Chan

Since Hawaii is pretty hard for Mexicans to sneak into, I wonder how it is they manage to harvest fruit and how any hotels and restaurants there can possibly survive.


19 posted on 04/10/2006 7:02:48 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (they love you in Mexico until you pay in pesos.)
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To: B-Chan; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...


That Dog Don't Hunt Ping!

21 posted on 04/10/2006 7:04:10 PM PDT by HiJinx (~ www.proudpatriots.org ~ Serving Those Who Serve Us ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~)
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To: B-Chan

I therefore propose that we, as a nation, retire the "Illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't do/don't want" argument.

This is patent nonsense.

Anybody using this argument either has no grasp of economics or is being disingenuous due to the presence of an ulterior motive. (Them's yer two choices, so take yer pick, Mr. Bush.)



Careful there partner, too many folk 'round these parts don't take kindly to that kind of common sense!


22 posted on 04/10/2006 7:06:38 PM PDT by trubluolyguy (I love coffee....I love it GOOD!)
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To: B-Chan

I wrote this letter to my three members of Congress today:

Dear Mr. Renzi, Senator McCain and Senator Kyl -- I'm sorry; I am pissed. I am incensed. I am nauseated at what I have witnessed today. These "sea of humanity" demonstrations by illegals, and especially the speeches by leaders who are certifiably communist; the overnight changeover from Mexican to American flags (where did all those flags come from; who bought them?). It is such a sham. And to have people who are breaking the law with every step they take in this land lecturing us about injustice. I tell you, I am nauseated by it.
I am a democrat, but haven't voted for a democrat for any national office for a long time. That party no longer cares about our country. They are not patriotic, whatsoever.
Please help me out here, help me and my wife to cope with what we are witnessing. Where is the conservative backbone in Congress?
HERE IS MY SOLUTION -- it is radical, but fair and comprehensive: Build a BIG steel wall, like Israel's. Build it a mile inside our border so the Mexican army cannot sidle up alongside or sabotage it or undermine it; make the mile between the wall and the mexican border a no-go zone. Build it double, with 100 yards of minefield in between. Build the inner wall of standard chainlink fence, as it need not be so formidable as the wall facing mexico.
Invite illegals already in America to come down, by the tens of thousands, to work on the wall, a month at a time, decent wages. Document them, then and there. Anyone who works on the wall a total of 6 months, whether off-and-on, or straight through, gets to come through INS legally, go straight to the head of the line, and bring spouse and children with them. They get to be citizens of the USA, on a special case basis.
Radical? Yes. But, if we don't have a border that means something (like every other country in the world), then we don't have a country. Please do something, quickly. The initiative has been stolen already. We need it back. We want our country back.
Your constituent,


24 posted on 04/10/2006 7:07:36 PM PDT by Migraine (...diversity is great (until it happens to you)...)
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To: B-Chan

Another stupid argument that needs to be canned is the idiotic, "we're a nation of immigrants." In fact, the vast majority of the CITIZENS living the United States were BORN HERE! Very, very few are actual immigrants. So, can everyone please disabuse yourself of this mistaken idea and stop using this worthless argument? (Yes, that means you, Mr. President.)


25 posted on 04/10/2006 7:08:18 PM PDT by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: B-Chan
The PEW Hispanic center has determined that only "3%" of illegals work in agriculture, the vast majority are in the service and construction jobs.
29 posted on 04/10/2006 7:11:05 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: B-Chan
I therefore propose that we, as a nation, retire the "Illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't do/don't want" argument.

It is, unfortunately for this article, a valid argument, especially in the case of food.

Ironically, the author steps on his own member: Anybody using this argument either has no grasp of economics or is being disingenuous due to the presence of an ulterior motive.

The economics are these: Americans might do the backbreaking agricultural jobs, but not for the wages at which illegals will do them. American farmers are operating on very thin margins and competing with foreign producers, so they've got a strong incentive to minimize their payroll costs -- hence the strong demand for illegal labor.

Farmers MIGHT automate -- but in that case, Americans still wouldn't be doing those jobs. Or the farmers might just go belly up -- again no agricultural jobs.

Sorry, the article dies on its own poor assumptions.

35 posted on 04/10/2006 7:14:46 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: B-Chan

The more pressure we keep on Mexico, immigration-wise, the more reformers
inside of Mexico can be emboldened and empowered to scale back monopolists'
abuses down there which keep our own country flooded with economic refugees.
Here's an interesting new thread on new legal reform progress that finally
emerged in Mexico I think as a result of immigration reform's failure:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1611677/posts

We can make a difference for our sake, and their's as well. Isn't it the
neighborly thing to do?


39 posted on 04/10/2006 7:16:41 PM PDT by Shuttle Shucker
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To: digger48
Simple Economics Lesson since this thread was supposedly made on Economics grounds.

If you decrease the supply of something (i.e Labor) the cost of it goes UP. Ok fine, everyone wants to make more right?

Ok, so the cost of goods is based on the cost of inputs (raw materials, equipment, labor, govt regulation and taxes etc).

So, if the cost of labor goes up, the cost to buy the product of that labor also has to go up so the price to the consumer rises.

NOW, the argument waging back and forth is the cost of Illegal Aliens to the Public Sector vrs the gain to the economy from an expanded labor and consumer base. Illegals buy and sell thus generating economic activity which is then taxed. Do Illegals consume more then they produce?

Maybe, maybe not. It is a completely unquantifiable factor. The Strict Enforcement people set the costs high and the benefits low. They are guessing. The Guest Worker advocates do the exact opposite guessing.

The reasonable solution, which NO one in Washington will grasp, is that this should be done in bites. For once lets try REALLY enforcing our laws. Let's build the wall. Let's punish the criminal employers of Illegals. Let's get serious about the Border Patrol and use our technology to make it as leak proof as possible. Israel does it against Terrorism, there is NO reason the USA cannot do it against Illegals.

IF we end up seeing this has a negative effect on our Economy, THEN we can talk Guest Worker.

But both sides have GOT to stop kidding themselves that everything is wonderful about their ideas and everything is evil about the other sides. There are costs and benefits involved here on both sides here. Anyone who tells you different is advocating something, NOT seriously considering the issue.
43 posted on 04/10/2006 7:18:16 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: CowboyJay

Sorry Jay, you are "My ideas are perfect everyone else is wrong" Freeper on this one. Your arguement is based on assumptions you accept. Fine, that doesn't make them facts, they are simply one side's "data". Good for you that you believe them.

Too bad they are far too one sided to be considered serious scholarship.


45 posted on 04/10/2006 7:22:04 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: B-Chan

How is this for an argument?

Everybody knows it, but somehow we never see it on TV or in print.

Liberals want to legitimize immigrants of any stripe because they see them as potential votes.

Poor people (immigrants usually qualify as poor) can't afford things because they have no money and so they vote for politicians who promise them free stuff.

Illegal immigrants represent a great voting block prize for socialists, communists, fascists, and big government types because liberals can keep them poor and forever on the Democrat plantation.

Democrats resist tooth and nail any notion that voters should be able to identify themselves legally when voting , and that the voters should be proficient in the English language.

Why don't we wear out that argument for a while?


46 posted on 04/10/2006 7:23:00 PM PDT by Radix (Stop domestic violence. Beat abroad!)
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To: B-Chan

With a few hours work by congress, we could enact laws that would allow us to bring in 11,000,000 replacement, registered workers in 11 weeks. Give them a registration card and tell them they have one month to report to a Post Office with an address.

One mill a week across and 30days to stay. After that, anyone employing an alien without the picture card will be fined 100,000 bux. Any alien not having a card would be transported to the border and sent back.


53 posted on 04/10/2006 7:29:02 PM PDT by lawdude (When Predsident Bush)
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