WPP Executive Resigns Over Remarks on Women [Or: Another media jerk's DEATH BY BLOG]

JULIE BOSMAN

[summer]

A well-known ... worldwide creative director at WPP Group resigned his position ...over remarks he made at an industry event about female creative executives. The comments, by Neil French, 61, drew attention to the absence of women at the highest levels of the creative side of advertising....

Mr. French told an audience... women "don't make it to the top because they don't deserve to"...

His comments infuriated... Nancy Vonk... of Ogilvy Toronto, [wrote] a column for a Web site denouncing his comments.

...Ms. Vonk said[:}..."It's undeniable that women aren't getting far enough in the creative part of agencies,..."
.. When Mr. French was asked ...why there weren't more high-ranking women in creative agency positions, he said it was because they were not good enough.

... In 1998, [French] was named to the position of worldwide creative director at WPP... the world's second-largest ad agency ...

...Mr. French defended his remarks:... "[Women] don't work hard enough..."b>

Mr. French said he believed that the event was private...
...Though statistics are hard to come by, industry executives said the scarcity of women in top creative positions is generally recognized. Creative directors are responsible for devising advertising campaigns.

The One Club... will induct a woman into its Hall of Fame next week for the first time since 1974....

...such imbalances in agencies were typically starkest in the creative department.

"Senior female creatives are virtually nonexistent," she said. "It's an incontrovertible fact,..." ...Mr. French's comments [are] "Neanderthal-like," [and]...an industrywide attitude."...

"There's still rampant sexism in our business," ....

Mr. French said he did not regret his remarks...Mr. French [was] widely pilloried on the Internet. "Death by blog is not really the way to go."

[OMalley]

sigh, not much of a response there missy.

you have not made a good argument for your case, therefore i stand by my original post. i still need to ask you, are you sure you are on the right forum?

you seem very pro woman, unless she stays at home. while you chastised (a little) the most corrupt (the UN) you did think "even they can take advantage of the poorest" as if for the most part they are good.

you also have a problem with white men, phrat boys, cooperations, and men in general (jerks i think you called them).

you believe men are doing all they can to squash the feminine spirit. get a grip, women such as yourself, dont get ahead because they hold themselves back with a lousy attitude.

you may not have to like your boss, but you do have to respect him. if you run around with a chip on your shoulder about how evil your boss is, how he is part of the good ole boys club, etc. he is going to pick up on that. it does not make you charming and it most certainly does not make you "upper level material". sorry honey.

teaching young ladys that they have to "claw and scratch" there way to the top, does not do them any favors either. again, you cannot raise good daughters to take the "world by storm" if you teach them to be victims. you get to the top by hard work, good work ethics and working well with others, even if that means working with "white men", "phrat boys" and the evils of a cooperation.

i fortunatly am raising a wonderful young man. most of my friends (also stay at home moms) are raising young ladys. not to be victims but to believe in themselves and to view the world as a place of endless opportunity. you dont have to "be out there" to teach them how to succeed, however teaching them to be "victims" such as you suggest, is a sure fire way to failure.

mr french has a valid point, as crudely put as it may be.
if you knew anything about the ad business you would know its a 24/7 position. most women these days have both a career and a family. if you want to make it to the top in such an industry you cannot take time off to see your childs school play or to take care of them when they are sick. you will be lucky if you make it home intime to tuck them in to bed. your marriage will suffer because you will never be home. so if you want to make it, you need not have a spouse, children or a life in general-outside the good ole boys club.

if thats what you are looking for, more power to ya!

i would suggest it is you who take a vacation and learn to work your way to the top, with a good attitude instead of standing around playing the victim, but i guess thats alot easier than a hard days work.

[theFIRMbss]

> i still need to ask you, are you sure you are on the right forum?

I noticed that, too.
(In fact, I've seen lots of posts
in lots of threads that

make me wonder what
is going on at FR.
My thinking is that

trolls have gotten smart,
learned some self control and now
have an organized

drive in progress to
use the anti-Miers madness
to turn FR Left . . .)

[summer]

standing around playing the victim

I am celebrating a media jerk's DEATH BY BLOG. Other women are celebrating it, too. And, what we are celebrating is not the same as what you said above. You could celebrate it, too, since he is in media and he is a jerk. Just because his name isn't "Dan Rather" is no reason for you to miss out. There are other jerks besides Dan Rather. And not all have yet met their death by blog, but there's still hope...

[summer]

My thinking is that FR is not the place for personal attacks. Maybe it is you who have spent too much time on other forums where that's all they do.

[summer]

Although I must admit I do not know why the NYT heading, date, and link I posted with this article was removed by someone, and why it was taken off the front page and stuck in the Bloggers & Personal section. I removed from my FR homepage the ner link to my personal forum and blog in case that is the reason. What I am involved in right now is something called enforcing my constitutional rights.

And, based on your snide remarks to me so far, and this is the first time I have encountered you, I am thinking you could make a case against a woman having constitutional rights. True, I am not an illegal alien, and I have contributed much to this country and forum in many ways, but, yes, even I have constitutional rights out there in this country. Even me. A person not an illegal alien and not a criminal. Yes, even me. An honest, hardworking, American woman has constitutional rights. Hard for some people to believe, I know!

Well, whatever. Take care.

[summer]

And that is not a slight to FR or anyone here. People here have shared much with me, and I always appreciate that. But, right now, I am in a struggle that is very exhausting and depressing and consuming. Maybe someday I will tell you all about it.

[MontanaBeth]

"...what's left is women simply cannot do this particular sort of work as well as men."

Did you read this?

"Last night Neil didn’t know his Canadian audience. He doesn’t realize we have Elspeth Lynn, Lorraine Tao, Christina Yu, Judy John hitting home runs in the shows he respects most while they fulfill the top jobs; that Canada’s largest city has almost as many female CD’s as male in the best known agencies. He doesn’t see the creative departments filled with women burning the midnight oil as much or more than the men (not that either gender should be bragging about that). Too bad for him that his experience working with women has been so limited, considering he’s spent his career in the most notoriously sexist environments in the world."

Apparently, Canadian women are able to do the job. You just think American women are incapable?

[OMalley]

yep ive noticed that as well.

I read the DUmmie FUnnies quite a bit and ive noticed alot of them talk about being deep under cover here. they brag about being able to turn long time freeper against freeper.

I used to assume they were far and in between, but anymore i think they are much bigger and more organized at FR.

they are getting easier to spot-you cant hardly go to a miers thread without seeing them in all thier glory-usually names i dont recognize from any other threads.

if im accurate and not tin foil hatty, id say a good 30% or more freepers are really DUers:(

[Eagles Talon IV]

Well then, if there are so many women in creative advertising then why all the fuss about what the man said? If this "wealth" of female creative writers is only in Canada as opposed to America then perhaps the standards for creative writers in Canada is lower? It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that were true since socialist believe absolute equality MUST be the rule even if it means less qualified people get the job.

[OMalley]

i dont want to celebrate it.

Not that im saying he is 100% accurate, but because everyone should have the right to speak their mind. i think some folks, including those he works with have blown what he said completely out of context.
As i said and showed above, he has a point, as crude as that may be.

I do not put him up there with dan rather. rather is the worst type of "jerk" his entire purpose is to mislead poeple for his own political agenda, while putting on a false persona of caring. mr french was giving his honest assesment (regardless of what others thought) and is now forced to resign.

Its PC run amok.

i remember the days before PC speech and it was refreshing. everyone in town knew who the chauvenist was, the bigot and so forth. now you could know someone for years and not know how they really feel.

Id rather know the guy (or woman) i work with was a "jerk", than have them be sweet and sugary to my face while stabbing me in the back. knowing your enemy (for a lack of a better term) helps in how you deal with individuals. if he wasnt promoting women, period, id say there was a problem. since he did, but rarely, i would say he promoted those that didnt have children, a spouse etc. those he felt "merited" the promotion.

the problem i see is that women are angry because they want to be up at the top too, but in the same breath hate those that are. if you make it to the top who do you think your associates will be? itll be the same folks you think are jerks. most women think if they make it to the top, then theyll hire more women, but then what? then you have sexism toward men, you have the "good ole gals" club. i never understood this whole concept of desiring to be what you hate most!

looking at men as a large part of the problem is going to get you nowhere. i worked outside the home before my son was born and i have seen it go both ways. women bosses who pass over men, one in particular even made a point to insult and berate any male employee. ive seen it the reverse as well.

you asked once why folks prefer to work for a man rather than a women. well i can tell you, because i am one of those poeple. a woman boss will be nice to your face, appear helpful and kind, then stab you in the back and you never see it coming. a male boss will tell you exactly what he thinks, good or bad. you know where you stand and what you need to do to improve and move up. guys for the most part dont mince words, or worry about your "feelings" (which have little to do with work).

in the working enviroment i would rather the person i work for focus on my skills and give an honest assesment, than try and act like my "sister". granted this has been my personal experience in the workplace. im not saying all women and all men are this way, but for the most part ive found it to be the "norm".

i am not discounting that you may be having some difficultys in your life, or that you may be a victim of some sort. but youll remain a victim until you realize that only you can change it. your only a victim if you choose to be. no you cant change the circumstances, or what has already occured, but you can take control (and responsibility) for you part in allowing it to happen and move on.

perhaps instead of attempting to be all mysterious about it, you could share. you might be suprised at what youd learn. just a thought....

[OMalley]

meow!

noone here is saying that women are incapable, sheesh.

what folks are saying is that men are better at some positions than women. just as women are better in certain positions than men. what is wrong with that?

incase you havent noticed men and women are very different. not just in the physical makeup, but in the way they think and process information.

feminists have it all backwards, they want to be "equal" to men, think like men, act like men, and in some cases BE men.

if women would look at what makes them different from men, use their strengths AS women,theyd get alot farther. we are equal to men, but not in the way feminists view it. we balance each other, each with equal (but different) qualities to contribute. as long as women get hung up on "being men" they will continue to be their own worst enemy.

[summer]

Real conservatives hate discrimination. 'Nuff said.

[OMalley]

uh, exuse me? who did i discriminate against? back up your accusation and show me where i did any such thing.

the only one discriminating against anyone has been you (men, white men, stay at home moms, drunken phrat boys, cooperations and oh yeah, MEN) dont try "projecting" with me.

i guess you have no better argument to anything i said, but to make a wise crack? if thats all the fight you have in you, give up now and save yourself the effort. sheesh.

[MontanaBeth]

if women would look at what makes them different from men, use their strengths AS women,theyd get alot farther. we are equal to men, but not in the way feminists view it. we balance each other, each with equal (but different) qualities to contribute. as long as women get hung up on "being men" they will continue to be their own worst enemy.

Wow, men and women are different. I'm so glad you pointed this out. Of course it has nothing to do with what I posted but you don't need to stick to the topic, feel free to rant away. Meow indeed.

[MontanaBeth]

..."perhaps the standards for creative writers in Canada is lower?"

Perhaps standards are lower in Canada, or perhaps there is an actual bias in the U.S. I'm not attacking your manhood, I thought you had overlooked the section on all the women in positions of authority in advertising in Canada, in your zeal to bash women. Not being in advertising myself or even knowing anyone in advertising, I can only go by the article posted and that was what my comments were based upon. If, you have an article backing up your comments, on lower hiring standards in Canada's advertising community, I would be happy to read it. I hate jumping to conclusions.

[Eagles Talon IV]

I was posing an explanation of perhaps why more women are hired in Canada for those positions then here. I don't believe it is a secret that hiring standards in many areas and for many jobs have been lowered so women can qualify. The Fire dept in NYC is one that comes to mind. It used to be that a firefighter had to be able to carry 175lb down a ladder in order to qualify in the physical testing. When the push for equality began these standards were lowered to, from what I recall, 125 lbs for women. Isn't that wonderful? Of course if you are on the 5th floor of a burning window and weigh in at 165 lbs....

I am not bashing women, btw. I just believe, no, I KNOW that women and men are NOT the same, that each have their areas of expertise and that these areas ought to be respected. I believe raising a child PROPERLY is the hardest job on the planet and that 99 times out of 100 a woman will do the job better then a man. Men are bigger and stronger then women and so can do certain thins quicker and more efficiently. Are their exceptions? Always. but that doesn't change the facts of what men and women each do best. There are certain areas where it really doesn't matter who is stronger or bigger and that has been proved in the case of women pilots, who by all accounts do as well as the men. In that area, however, there are rigid standards that CANNOT be altered because lives are at stake. In the case of creative writing, if a top flight firm in this country has few to no women on their payroll then there is a reason. The bottom line in a business is to hire the best you can afford and use them to make as much money as possible. With few exceptions if a woman was better qualified then a man in a position such as this she would be given the job. Besides, aren't women always crying that they are paid less for the same work men do? Even more reason why they would get the job if they were in fact qualified.

[OMalley]

"I believe raising a child PROPERLY is the hardest job on the planet "

Thanks for that. Most folks dont understand what really goes into taking the time and effort to raise the next generation or care for a home and husband.

i guess this thread is a little too close to home. ive been saturated with this "women are held down by men" attitude among other stay at home moms and conservative christians no less.

you are correct 99 percent of the time women do excel at raising children, but i know a few of the 1% of men who are outstanding daddy's who are raising exceptional children:)

you might want to prepare yourself for your "obvious" post. Seems i was berated for simular points (though not as eliquantly put as yourself) for not "sticking to the topic"

[theFIRMbss]

>But, right now, I am in a struggle that is very exhausting and depressing and consuming. Maybe someday I will tell you all about it

My Lord, Summer, you suffer so! I must say, you inspire all of us! When they make a film about your life, Meryl Streep or Sally Field will win awards portraying your struggle and inner strength around heartless men!

[OMalley]

and ran as a monday night special on lifetime, tv for women;)

[OMalley]

i went back to reread what you posted. is that all that was printed?

it seemed a little choppy to me, so a googled miss vont. did you bother to read the original article in ad week?

were you aware they were friends? that he was her mentor?

"We’ve felt honored that Neil calls us his friends"

wow, must be a real "jerk"...heres more.....

"Although Vonk described French as a longtime friend and mentor, she said she was shocked by the tone of his comments. "It was one of those experiences where you can hardly absorb what you are hearing," Vonk continued. "Nothing prepared us. Even knowing him to be a boy's boy. I never felt that he had such extreme views."

but wait...it gets more interesting.....lets take another look at these "extreme views"

"French, a much-revered copywriter, is well known for his "politically incorrect" views. One source described him as "the Howard Stern of advertising," adding that his shock value is part of what makes him such a big personality and a draw at industry events".

whats that? he was PAID to entertain and shock? this was EXPECTED of him!!

but wait.... here is more from miss vont:

"It felt like I got a shotgun blast in the face. I've had the experience of him being an excellent leader and very inspiring person. My head is still spinning because it was so outrageous. The upshot of what he said is that you give [women] a shot and they run off and have babies. It wasn't in good humor. It was extremely painful the way he spoke."

again he was paid to be outragious, thats why they hired him!

not to mention this is not far from the truth. many womens mags encourage women to seek first a career, climb the cooperate ladder and then have a family. this type of thing is encouraged for women by women! shocking indeed!

mr french's comments:

"The point is that Nancy is an old friend, and should have raised this with me personally. The audience had paid to be entertained, not lectured to".

it appears miss vont has a personal agenda here.

according to ad week, they are considering making all of mr french's comments public, should be interesting.

its sad that he was doing what he was paid to do, shock and outrage and that someone he considered a friend stabbed him in the back. someone who claimed he wasnt a "jerk" but a great freind, leader and mentor.

do you have a personal agenda in posting half the story? do you need a forum to bash men, because of your personal issues?